Ashes of the Angels

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krellen
Location: The City in New Mexico
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Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby krellen » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:14 am

Only at risk of violating the Masquerade.
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lostclause

Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby lostclause » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:43 am

I suppose you could kept meticulous records of pet shops that are open late :P
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NoneCallMeTim

Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby NoneCallMeTim » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:48 am

krellen wrote:Only at risk of violating the Masquerade.


I thought that showing my fugly Nosferatu face was a violation anyway?
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krellen
Location: The City in New Mexico
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Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby krellen » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:26 pm

NoneCallMeTim wrote:
krellen wrote:Only at risk of violating the Masquerade.


I thought that showing my fugly Nosferatu face was a violation anyway?

It's easier to hide your face than to hide your ridiculous ratbeer hat.
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krellen
Location: The City in New Mexico
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Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby krellen » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:52 pm

Last week was pretty crazy at work. Things feel like they're going to be a lot calmer this week (if today is a fair measure, anyway).
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NoneCallMeTim

Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby NoneCallMeTim » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:15 pm

krellen wrote:Last week was pretty crazy at work. Things feel like they're going to be a lot calmer this week (if today is a fair measure, anyway).


Hey, no problem. Trying to get a load of people together is always difficult. Thanks for doing everything you are doing.

krellen wrote:-snip-
It's easier to hide your face than to hide your ridiculous ratbeer hat.


It isn't ridiculous, it is a sensible option for the Nosferatu on the go. Think of the money a Vampire Entrepreneur could make. After all, grabbing a passerby and sucking their blood is so passé these days.

I am being silly, in case it isn't obvious.

lostclause wrote:I suppose you could kept meticulous records of pet shops that are open late :P


That thought tickled me. I wrote up a sketch based on it on my blog:

http://www.roleplaygame.co.uk/2013/04/r ... t-problem/
SleepingDragon

Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby SleepingDragon » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:01 am

@krellen No problem at all, I think I actually like the slower pace, especially when we get into more exchange intense moments there will be time enough for them to play out, plus it saves me stressing over the game when I can't access the net for a day or two.

@NoneCallMeTim Afaik generally drinking from animals is considered bad manners in most vampire groups and I seem to remember claims in the sourcebook that it is actually less pleasant for the vampire, this may be a matter of manners though (and I do remember one pen and paper extremely very high humanity character who avoided drinking human blood in general, it was considered an oddity in the game though) so basically a kindred who could afford a steady stream of animals could probably look after access to some human blood, although I can imagine scenarios where you have access to a big number of animals without having actual resources, like being able to access the zoo... on the other hand the health of animals in a zoo is usually pretty well monitored... (I know I'm overthinking it again but I play and GM a lot so it sort of comes with the territory)
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krellen
Location: The City in New Mexico
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Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby krellen » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:33 pm

In the IC thread, SleepingDragon wrote:(I'm operating under the assumption that vampires can recognize another when talking face to face like this if they know what to look for and the other one isn't doing something like heavy make-up to conceal their nature or something along the lines?)

Generally, yes. Most vampires have visibly extended canines (they actually do retract when not feeding, but - except for those with the highest Humanity - not completely), and it's a fair bet that anyone with a deathly pallour is actually a vampire (though, as I've alluded to, vampires that have recently fed are not pale (this lasts for about an hour per blood point fed on.))
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NoneCallMeTim

Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby NoneCallMeTim » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:58 pm

SleepingDragon wrote:@NoneCallMeTim Afaik generally drinking from animals is considered bad manners in most vampire groups and I seem to remember claims in the sourcebook that it is actually less pleasant for the vampire, this may be a matter of manners though (and I do remember one pen and paper extremely very high humanity character who avoided drinking human blood in general, it was considered an oddity in the game though) so basically a kindred who could afford a steady stream of animals could probably look after access to some human blood, although I can imagine scenarios where you have access to a big number of animals without having actual resources, like being able to access the zoo... on the other hand the health of animals in a zoo is usually pretty well monitored... (I know I'm overthinking it again but I play and GM a lot so it sort of comes with the territory)


I know it is bad manners for most vampires, but I am playing as a Nosferatu in the same way that I have been playing in the computer game version. That is, feeding mainly on rats as a mainstay for living on, and on humans if the opportunity arises when in need of blood.

To continue the overthinking, I doubt that pet shops would be a serious alternative. I wonder whether blood banks who sell blood wold water the cheap stuff down with animal blood?
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:01 pm

NoneCallMeTim wrote:To continue the overthinking, I doubt that pet shops would be a serious alternative. I wonder whether blood banks who sell blood wold water the cheap stuff down with animal blood?


Blood banks that sell blood for human transfusion would definitely never do that,because that would kill the recipient.But if some are selling blood to vampires,they might do such a thing.
SleepingDragon

Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby SleepingDragon » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:54 pm

Sure, my point was more that someone who could actually afford buying enough animals on a regular basis would probably have resources to obtain it otherwise, which would be preferable.

As for what Daemian said, yeah, completely. So obviously they wouldn't do it with blood meant for transfusions, but this then means that this would have to be a blood bank where catering to vampires was a large part of their business or else keeping lots of animal blood would seem odd to any inspector or new employee. Also, I wonder about obtaining animal blood, I mean, I assume that things like blood bank in Bloodlines aren't super common and the packets sold on the side come from normal donors and get "misplaced" or hidden in some creative booking but I don't think animal donors are that common... actually, I'll probably be talking to a vet friend tomorrow so I'll ask about animal blood availability.

Oh, and from what I recall the guy in the Bloodlines blood bank isn't just an ordinary human doing business on the side but a ghoul, so that's there far as masquerade is concerned.
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krellen
Location: The City in New Mexico
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Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby krellen » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:51 pm

SleepingDragon wrote:Oh, and from what I recall the guy in the Bloodlines blood bank isn't just an ordinary human doing business on the side but a ghoul, so that's there far as masquerade is concerned.

Vandal was Therese's ghoul, yes. It's likely he didn't have to deal with too many health regulations (Therese pretty much owned Santa Monica).
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NoneCallMeTim

Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby NoneCallMeTim » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:53 pm

Ok, random question: is it possible to have more than one ghoul at a time?
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krellen
Location: The City in New Mexico
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Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby krellen » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:54 pm

Anyone who has drunk at least one blood point of vitae in the past month is a ghoul.

Anyone who had drunk at least three blood points of your vitae in the past year is Bound to you*.

One can create as many ghouls and Bonds as one is willing to expend the blood (and able to find recipients for it) to do so.

(*certain restrictions apply. Bonds not guaranteed. Subjects can be thrall to only one Bond at a time. If a conflict exists, the strongest blood prevails.)
SleepingDragon

Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby SleepingDragon » Wed May 01, 2013 7:43 am

Ha, far as overthinking it ghouls are one of those things that come up probably almost as often as whether keeping masquerade is realistic. Mechanically humans regenerate blood points at a certain pace, I think it's mentioned somewhere in the sourcebook but in my experience it varies with the GM, if this rate of regeneration is equal to or greater than that "one point a month" you can theoretically have a ghoul army without blood being a problem. Even if that rate is lower having a big enough number of ghouls would let you, again in theory, have them herd enough other mortals to make up for the deficiency.

Of course a reasonable GM will give you all sorts of hell if you try anything like this. For one the logistics of keeping, say, a thousand ghouls would be a nightmare. For two while ghouls are much less visible far as masquerade breaching is concerned a big enough number of them will be noticed by people and agencies who know what to look for, and even those who don't may notice some odd patterns. For three, and this would probably come in much, much earlier (and give your GM much, much more fun) than either of the first two issues, ghouls are not mindless minions, they will have their quirks, personalities and ambitions, all of which will be mixed with the blood bond, which can mess a human up in whole new fun ways. And even at its basic the blood bond is an obsessive love that overcomes (almost) everything else. The ghoul wants to serve, wants to please you, they live for your praise and whither at your displeasure (it's not easy to break a blood bond by mistreating a ghoul but if you're bad enough, or if your ghoul is sensitive and/or unhinged enough... well, let's say things like gollum's type of crazy is not out of the question).

This will vary from ghoul to ghoul, will change depending on what sort of relationship the vampire creates with them, can be modified with teaching and training and use of disciplines... but imagine having just a dozen people all desiring they please you, all wishing to serve you to the point where they'd abandon their careers, families and, most often, sacrifice their lives for your sake, and they will not be above being jealous, having initiative or even, in some cases, creatively interpreting your commands. Oh, and since a lot of vampires need ghouls to mostly run errands they often don't see the need to extensively explain how vampire society works, which can lead to all sorts of hilarity when a ghoul runs into something and has only the best of intentions. For all of these reasons most vampires handpick their ghouls, usually after some time of observation and research or working relationship, and try to establish how things work from day one, or even create the foundations for it in advance.

Of course you can have a few ghouls who are unaware of each other, have a good professional relationship, don't care much about the others or even, if you're lucky, patient and invest time and effort, you can have a group of ghouls with bonds nearly as strong as those that tie them to yourself and who will support each other and work perfectly well together. On the gripping hand I once run a scenario where such a group of ghouls pretty much imprisoned their master while having convinced themselves that they serve and protect him in this way. They were Malkavian ghouls but still.

Edit: Well that was a whole wall of text when I look at it. I guess it's just fun for me to pick at such things.
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NoneCallMeTim

Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby NoneCallMeTim » Wed May 01, 2013 7:57 am

@SleepingDragon thank you for the response. The ghoul you get to create in the CRPG is a bit creepy, I guess they would all be a bit like that, and difficult to handle.

Then you have the Giovani who, according to the original lore, pretty much everyone is a ghoul to multiple sires.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Wed May 01, 2013 9:38 am

Well seeing how you die when you lose about half of your blood(2,5 liters),and losing one third(about 1,7l)is considered dangerous,we can assume that one blood point is about 500ml.And seeing how humans regenerate blood from donations in about month,month and a half,lets say that they can regenerate a blood point every 40 days.So you can get back the blood you got from bounding a ghoul in about 4 months.Which means that every ghoul you make your own for a year,can give you enough blood to sustain his transformation and the transformation of 3 more ghouls.

But,you still have to feed.So to have a completely self sufficient army youd need about 150 ghouls.However,one should not forget that those 150 ghouls also need to be healthy,well fed and rested in order to sustain you.Its doable,but not really viable,seeing how youd need to protect them from other vampires,while also battling them yourself.If you were alone in some village,then youd have no problem.
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anaphysik
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Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby anaphysik » Wed May 01, 2013 9:49 am

Daemian Lucifer wrote:But,you still have to feed.So to have a completely self sufficient army youd need about *150* ghouls.However,one should not forget that those 150 ghouls also need to be healthy,well fed and rested in order to sustain you.Its doable,but not really viable,seeing how youd need to protect them from other vampires,while also battling them yourself.If you were alone in some village,then youd have no problem.
What a rather curiously coincidental number you have there... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar_number

Seems that small villages of ghouls maintained by a single vampire could have been quite the norm.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Wed May 01, 2013 9:59 am

By the way,about Mary and recognizing her as a vampire,she is always wearing a ton of makeup,so she wont strike anyone as pale.Though this is going the complete opposite way because she is always using excessive makeup.
SleepingDragon

Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby SleepingDragon » Wed May 01, 2013 10:27 am

@Daemian The thing is the amount of blood is not always indicative of its value in blood points. The most obvious difference being that human blood is more satiating (greater blood point value) than a similar amount of animal blood but there is also a matter of some vampires (lower generations) having much bigger blood pools without making sloshing sounds with every step (according to the sourcebook they can "concentrate" the potency of consumed blood in a smaller amount of liquid), which is supposed to come from them being more powerful, but then a turned child will have the same amount of blood as a turned adult if they're of the same generation, then there are animal ghouls who vary wildly by size... In light of this I know a lot of GMs decided to not go by actual volume but rather interpret draining blood points as taking some semi-abstract "vital power" that is transferred by medium of blood but is not, in actuality, blood.

About Mary... I guess by now we'll have to go with her and Daniel noticing and recognizing each other the previous night.
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krellen
Location: The City in New Mexico
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Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby krellen » Wed May 01, 2013 12:40 pm

A human who has lost one blood point will regain that blood point (and be perfectly healthy) after one day.

A human who has lost the "safe" three blood points requires a week to regain them. The more blood lost/more injured a person is, the longer it takes them to heal. Those with access to vitae can spend vitae to heal, of course.

(In case it's not clear, "vitae" refers always to vampiric blood, and I will try to be consistent about separating "blood" from "vitae". Both blood and vitae are measured in blood points.)
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krellen
Location: The City in New Mexico
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Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby krellen » Wed May 01, 2013 3:35 pm

A note: you are all doing a really good job of taking initiative. I'm pleased.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Wed May 01, 2013 3:51 pm

krellen wrote:A note: you are all doing a really good job of taking initiative. I'm pleased.


So we get bonus cookies tonight?
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Anster
Location: Odessa

Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby Anster » Wed May 01, 2013 7:04 pm

Oh hey, cookies for violating the Elysium. Will I get an apple pie if something even dumber goes down?
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krellen
Location: The City in New Mexico
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Re: Ashes of the Angels

Postby krellen » Wed May 01, 2013 10:45 pm

lostcause, the lady in question was actually VV. I wasn't sure Seb had ever met her.

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