Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

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Ringwraith

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby Ringwraith » Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:19 pm

Late Re: Jessica Jones talk, it does have things go back-and-forth as things are 'reset', although it makes a lot of sense, and that kind of thing ends when Hope kills herself, realising that Jessica's need to save her for her own guilt is what's holding Jessica back from just killing Kilgrave when she has the chance and ending it, instead of increasingly complicated schemes to try and capture him. Which end up backfiring because either someone thought of something ahead of time, or someone's own interference ruined the delicate plan.
Still excellent at its portrayal of a collection of variously traumatised people though, including subjects which rarely up.
gloatingswine

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby gloatingswine » Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:57 pm

4th Dimension wrote:I just spent too much time watching Luke Cage and I loved it. I liked the music, I liked some of the villains (they were all bastards but they had character) and I liked the way Luke tended to handle things, straightforward.
The ending with the cellphone is a bit smelly though and the end boss never really grabbed me. The whole thing with him just having around bulets that can pierce Luke's skin, the whole "Let's set up Luke" scheme and him having basically power armor to fight him in the last fight were smelly. On the other hand the last fight was something I would have expected out of Luke and not that bullshit with bullets.

Also doesn't the good doc ever learn that it is a mistake to keep trying to give powers to the god damned dangerous criminals?


I liked Luke Cage, but there's a but.

The but is personified in the form of Diamondback, the supposed big bad of the series. I didn't care about him, he was nowhere near as interesting to watch as Cottonmouth and I don't think the plot could decide whether he was the super connected big man of the gun running trade or the bastard offspring of Jules Winfield and the Joker, all random murder and bible quotes.

It felt too convenient to have the big man come to town and surprise he's also Luke Cage's half brother who is upset that daddy didn't love him as much, nobody was invested in his personal conflict with Cage, not even Cage, and so the audience couldn't get invested in it either. But he makes the plot dance around him for the whole second half of the story whilst he sucks up screentime that more interesting people could have used.

They had a good thing going with Cottonmouth and the power dynamic between him and Mariah, it would have been way more interesting to keep digging into his character as this vulnerable person forced to make a shell of violence around him by his grandmother, and they totally wasted it by offing him as early as episode seven.

Keep him for longer (before doing the same thing), keep Diamondback and his silly bullets and his super suit out of it and put Mariah in the centre of the series for the last quarter. If you need to stop Cage being the almighty punchman for a bit to explain why he doesn't just punch everyone forever then do what she suggested and poison him.


Better than Daredevil season 2 though. Not having silly old ninjas in saw to that. It's not the 1980s any more and ninjas don't mean what they used to back then.
Last edited by gloatingswine on Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:59 pm

25 bucks for a shave?Daaaym thats steep!

So,JJ was about the conflict between body and mind,and LC seems to be about the conflict between money and integrity.So far so good.

And I missed this last time:

Supahewok wrote:She'd been able to concoct complicated, rational plans for dealing with Kilgrave at different points of the show, including a couple of kidnap attempts (I think she captured him a total of 3 times, maybe 4?). And then sometimes she wouldn't, and there was no effective show of a change in emotions or mindset in between. Or if there was, it wasn't effectively conveyed to the audience. Sometimes she was patient and thoughtful, sometimes she wasn't, yet she acted the same through both. It was plot convenience stupidity to stretch out show time.


The thing about irrational behavior is that its irrational.You dont behave weird all the time.And what triggers the change doesnt have to be obvious.You could,for example,work a steady job,pay your bills,do all the normal things,and then drink yourself to sleep.

Also,Id hardly call a plan that starts with "So,we kidnap this person" as a sane,rational plan.
Steve C

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby Steve C » Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:22 pm

I watched the first episode of Luke Cage. I did not care much for it. NYC gangster stories are not my kind of thing. I did not hate it. I did not like it either.

This is where the business plan of the MCU shines. If the show was just the show, then I'd already be done with it. This show has Jessica Jones, Daredevil and the MCU to prop up my mediocre first impression. It has goodwill to burn to keep me invested a little longer. So I'm going to keep watching at least one more episode.
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4th Dimension

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby 4th Dimension » Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:59 pm

@gloatingswine
Yes I agree. He comes in too late with next to no background and is too corny and too much of an writer's pet to be interesting.

Surprisingly I have more beef with bullets than with the suit. They are too much of an perfect counter to LC. LC's thing is that he is a tall implacable black man striding forward slowly like Terminator while "solving" Harlem's problems head on by throwing mooks around with his fists. If you introduce not even a GUN but a bullet that can be fired out of basically ANY gun that can penetrate him and get stuck in him making it impossible to remove it without basically an impossible procedure, he is basically finished. He is not Daredevil who can use acrobatics and darkness to dance through gunfire. He is not JJ who while nowhere near as quick as DD has her own regeneration and toughness powers enabling her to take couple buletts and keep fighting through heroic resolve untill she can seek normal medical attention. If Myriah and Shades do not have a stockpile of those bullets by the time of the next LC encounter I would be dissapointed. And if they have LC has been basically neutralized.

The suit on the other hand while ridiculously looking enables the wearer to face LC and engage him in a fight where LC can do his thing while the antagonist can have a chance of winning. Basically it does not negate the hero but makes the combat a more even thing. Hell I thought that Cottonmouth had shades of Fisk in him that one time in the beginning when he pulverized that kid with his hands. So I thought he was going to actually fistfight LC in at least midseson finale, or he might get a bit supered by some random drug or something enabling him and LC to go to town on each other in the club.

Steve C wrote:I watched the first episode of Luke Cage. I did not care much for it. NYC gangster stories are not my kind of thing. I did not hate it. I did not like it either.

This is where the business plan of the MCU shines. If the show was just the show, then I'd already be done with it. This show has Jessica Jones, Daredevil and the MCU to prop up my mediocre first impression. It has goodwill to burn to keep me invested a little longer. So I'm going to keep watching at least one more episode.

Not really the same but as a foreigner and therefore 100% removed from heroes in sports and other of Harlem that scene at the beggining in the shop where they I THINK talk sports had me going "Huh, yes they are talking in English but FUCK me if I know WHAT they are talking about. They might as well be talking gibberish."
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:45 pm

4th Dimension wrote:Not really the same but as a foreigner and therefore 100% removed from heroes in sports and other of Harlem that scene at the beggining in the shop where they I THINK talk sports had me going "Huh, yes they are talking in English but FUCK me if I know WHAT they are talking about. They might as well be talking gibberish."


Since they were talking basketball,every nerd had that reaction.
Steve C

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby Steve C » Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:58 pm

I've watched the first 3 episodes of Luke Cage now and I'm still on the fence.

The worst thing is that the 3rd episode undid the plot of the previous two. Cottonmouth needs the cash to cover up the embezzlement. Except he doesn't need the cash. He's got so much cash he can fill a small room. Why didn't he give a bag of cash to the cousin and be done with the nagging? - reasons I guess. I also saw the story beats of who was going to die, and what was going to motivate who and which characters were going to die a mile away.

The best thing about LC is the villains, like all of the Netfix-Marvel shows. The villains aren't one note. I also like that they are using an older cast. It's not all 20-somethings. Same thing with the cops.

The two biggest things going for it is still the goodwill of the franchise and the fact that I have no other shows to watch. I want to like it more but it's just filling time.
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4th Dimension

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby 4th Dimension » Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:05 pm

The cash thing could theoretically be explained that the big sum is needed to cover the operating expenses and as such can not be given. The deal was important because it would inject new neto profit into the systems allowing him to cover his obligations towards his family. It's still most likely a plothole.
gloatingswine

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby gloatingswine » Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:37 pm

Steve C wrote:The worst thing is that the 3rd episode undid the plot of the previous two. Cottonmouth needs the cash to cover up the embezzlement. Except he doesn't need the cash. He's got so much cash he can fill a small room. Why didn't he give a bag of cash to the cousin and be done with the nagging? - reasons I guess. I also saw the story beats of who was going to die, and what was going to motivate who and which characters were going to die a mile away.


The series does actually offhandedly explain this later on. He never needed the money from her in the first place, he was doing it to draw her in and drag her into criminality with him. He's stringing her along to stop her cutting ties. Possibly because he's not actually psychologically able to do it alone without family there.

Would have been cool to explore, doesn't happen though.


4th Dimension wrote:Hell I thought that Cottonmouth had shades of Fisk in him that one time in the beginning when he pulverized that kid with his hands. So I thought he was going to actually fistfight LC in at least midseson finale, or he might get a bit supered by some random drug or something enabling him and LC to go to town on each other in the club.


I think that's intentional. Echoing Fisk early on sets expectations for an audience for what the character will be like, but as the show goes further into Cottonmouth's past and you start seeing his character it becomes clear he's basically the opposite of Fisk. Fisk is a mask of civility over a core of blind howling rage, whereas Cottonmouth is at his core still this lost and vulnerable person who was bullied into becoming a killer early in his life by his grandmother who couldn't see any way for him to be except the same kind of tyrant she was. Fisk stares at a wall when he's unsettled, because the wall reflects something about him. Cottonmouth plays piano, and plays it really well, well enough that his life could have been very very different and he really wanted it that way.

Could have been another in Marvel's list of hit villains. Especially with Mahershala Ali's performance. Potential wasted. Stupid Diamondback.
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krellen
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Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby krellen » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:39 am

Non-Spoiler comment about Luke Cage: So damn jazzed that they managed to get his original costume into the show.
Ninety-Three

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby Ninety-Three » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:01 am

I gave Luke Cage three episodes. It opens with a crime happening, and then spends the next two and a half episodes having all the characters piece together the mystery that the audience just saw the answer to. Events unfold at a glacial pace, if you don't absolutely love the characters and the moment-to-moment human drama, I don't think there's enough there.

The fight scenes were terribly underwhelming: Luke Cage is super-strong, indestructible, and he fights like he knows it. Watching him stomp thugs with baseball bats is about as interesting as watching a level 60 character PVP against 20s.

I'm struggling to remember the last MCU thing I really enjoyed. Bits of season 1 Agents of Shield? Captain America 2 was alright, I guess? As a nerd, it's weird to feel like I've somehow ended up on the outside of nerd culture, not really getting the modern superhero stuff. I like superheroes! Lots of people like the MCU! Why don't I?
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:52 am

Ninety-Three wrote:The fight scenes were terribly underwhelming: Luke Cage is super-strong, indestructible, and he fights like he knows it. Watching him stomp thugs with baseball bats is about as interesting as watching a level 60 character PVP against 20s.


Yeah,I hope this picks up.Because watching a superman roll through normies is not engaging at all.And since he has no real attachments,theres no real threat to him.At least in JJ he was facing someone who actually could harm him.

Ninety-Three wrote:Why don't I?


Isnt it obvious?You arent really a nerd.
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4th Dimension

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby 4th Dimension » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:14 am

krellen wrote:Non-Spoiler comment about Luke Cage: So damn jazzed that they managed to get his original costume into the show.

And a comment how he looks like a fool in it ;)

Daemian Lucifer wrote:
Ninety-Three wrote:The fight scenes were terribly underwhelming: Luke Cage is super-strong, indestructible, and he fights like he knows it. Watching him stomp thugs with baseball bats is about as interesting as watching a level 60 character PVP against 20s.


Yeah,I hope this picks up.Because watching a superman roll through normies is not engaging at all.And since he has no real attachments,theres no real threat to him.At least in JJ he was facing someone who actually could harm him.

They will introduce something that can harm him, but gloatingswine and me both found it one of things that we did not like. The actual threat is not really weather or not he lives or dies, but weather or not he will be able to bring the criminals down and have them arrested while clearing his name in the eyes of Harlem and becoming their champion.
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krellen
Location: The City in New Mexico
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Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby krellen » Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:08 pm

Daemian Lucifer wrote:And since he has no real attachments,theres no real threat to him.

He has attachments. Pop is the first.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:40 am

The most unbelievable thing about luke cage:He uses a bic razor to shave his head smooth.
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Narratorway
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Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby Narratorway » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:41 pm

Just started last week on the first season of DD. This thing keeps teasing escalation but has only delivered once so far. It's good, but fuck is it sluggish.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:38 am

Ninety-Three wrote:I gave Luke Cage three episodes.


Maybe you should give it another go.It does pick up once the "kryptonite" gets introduced.I know that "it gets better 20 hours in" is not a good recommendation,but its worth a consideration.You could fast forward through episodes 4,5 and 6 and start from 7 on,when the show finally starts going somewhere.
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4th Dimension

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby 4th Dimension » Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:12 am

For me it started picking up once Luke decided to have a row with the boss and knock over his "bank".
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:56 am

Oh yeah,I can read those luke cage spoilers now.

The bullets were introduced well,being ultra expensive and rare because of the material they were made from.But their usage later,where diamondback gets to fire them wildly,and worse,where they can arm a whole squad with them,is too much.Its ok to have an equalizer for the plebs,but not like this.The scheme to arm the plebs was good in theory,but the practice of it was not executed well.

My problem with the suit is that its basically bulletproof armor that enhances strength.So how does it withstand punches then?
gloatingswine

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby gloatingswine » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:14 am

Daemian Lucifer wrote:My problem with the suit is that its basically bulletproof armor that enhances strength.So how does it withstand punches then?


It's evidently supposed to be absorbing energy from the punches and using it to power the super strength, which is why it powers down when Luke stops punching back and lets it wear down. They even had the thing make increasingly high pitched noises the more it got hit to try and sell it. (Actually a p. common superhero thing. I'm sure there's at least one X-Person who does that and IIRC Speedball does too.)

Looked damn stupid though, and didn't protect the face at all.
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4th Dimension

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby 4th Dimension » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:24 am

I kept muttering to Luke that he should try ripping the obvious powersource/weakspot out.
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Andrew

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby Andrew » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:15 am

Anyone watching Iron Fist?
gloatingswine

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby gloatingswine » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:08 am

Watched the first few. It's ehh.

So far, up to episode 4, there just isn't a compelling conflict. The first chunk is all about Danny proving his identity but there's no tension about it.

Also, Danny seems to be able to flip between being kung fu action jesus and a complete chump depending on what the scene needs from him.
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Andrew

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby Andrew » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:31 am

Yep... that's what I was afraid of. The previews didn't look very good at all.

At this stage I'm only considering watching it so I know who he is in The Defenders later this year.
gloatingswine

Re: Netflix MCU shows - Daredevil, Jesica Jones etc.

Postby gloatingswine » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:57 pm

Andrew wrote:At this stage I'm only considering watching it so I know who he is in The Defenders later this year.


He's a man with a shiny hand that punches good*.

I have saved you 13** hours of dull, muddled, poorly written, television.

*For given values of good, the fight choreography is uninspiring.

**Okay I'm only up to episode 9, but things are not getting better.

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