DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

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Andrew

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Andrew » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:57 pm

Wide And Nerdy wrote:They're not doing as much with it as I'd hoped. I think it would be more interesting if there were more moments of them each sort of being caught off guard by the differences and similarities. It almost feels like they're doing it just to do it sometimes, rather than doing it to explore it.

I think because these characters have always been written kind of broadly and reinterpreted so much, the writers struggle to pin down what's the same and whats different. This could be a real opportunity to take past issues, sift out issues that portray him differently and build two or three different takes on the character based on how he's been written, then take one of those takes and say "Thats who this guy is."

So far, the direction seems to be to use Dan Jurgens as the reference. Jurgens wrote Superman for the entirety of the 90's, starting prior to Death of Superman. And I think thats a good choice. That Superman is kind of different from the New 52 character, but I'm not seeing any reaction or discussion. The closest we get is Batman being suspicious about why this Superman hid all this time (after Convergence, he was punted back in time so that he's now been here in hiding with Lois and his son for almost ten years.) This is because Jurgen's Superman was always more reluctant about his role as a leader and more afraid of his own power than the N52 incarnation. While N52 Batman became accustomed to N52's exuberance, he might come to appreciate Superdad's reluctance in time.

That all sounds, well, it sounds rather underwhelming. There may be more on the Superman front though in Justice League. The last one I read (which I think was the latest issue) ended with the Justlce League showing up at Supes front door and asking his kid if 'dad' was home. It's taken a while. It's already issue 10 and Superman sightings have been few and far between. If i'm not mistaken the way they're framing Flashpoint, Convergence, N52 and Rebirth is that the N52 characters are all one and the same as the pre-Convergence characters (with the notable differences of N52 Superman and Lois Lane who split or something) and that while they were living their N52 lives they had their memories wiped. Is that what it is? It's so hard to follow sometimes. But my point is, if that's true, then I'm sure Batman and Superman will eventually come together again just like pre-Convergence.

Is N52 Superman even around now? I thought I read somewhere that he had reverted to Clark Kent without any superpowers.

Also, point of interest, I was browsing my local comic book store yesterday and they had the first couple of issues of the new Teen Titans. I flicked through them and it looks like Damian Wayne - Robin, Son of Batman - is going to be their new leader. That's interesting. He's a little shit but I've always liked him. I may have to add Teen Titans to my reading list just because of that.
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Andrew

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Andrew » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:32 am

Gotham was good.

So is Lee's fiance supposed to be the Owl guy or just infected by the Tetch virus?

Cutting edge effects. I get it... lol

Harvey Bullock is far and away my favourite character on this show. I wonder if Gordon will be promoted to Captain. He needs to start his trek to Commissioner eventually, right?

As a whole, Gotham is taking an inverse journey in that most TV shows will start strongly and slowly fade away as characters and plots get old and tired but as far as I'm concerned, Gotham started really slowly and has only gotten better and more interesting with each passing season. Long may it last!
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:29 am

Andrew wrote:So is Lee's fiance supposed to be the Owl guy or just infected by the Tetch virus?


I think he just has alices blood.But I cant remember if he was infected on screen.

As for why the owls want him dead,maybe they are just gordons fangirls and want him to be with his true wuv.
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Andrew

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Andrew » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:50 am

Watched Supergirl last night because of the 4-way crossover. Had no idea what was going on until Barry and Cisco showed up.

Flash was good. Like, really good. Diggle had some of the best one-liners any CW superhero show has ever produced.

Not sure what Cisco was thinking straight when he confronted Barry. I get his feelings and they're totally justified but they were about to fight Aliens. Didn't make any sense other than as a plot device to allow Barry and Oliver to come to the rescue.

I'm also pretty sure that future Barry's message had nothing to do with Flashpoint. 40 years - that's just, so much time for Barry to screw up over and a over again!
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:31 am

Andrew wrote:Watched Supergirl last night because of the 4-way crossover. Had no idea what was going on until Barry and Cisco showed up.


I like that they are spacing this over the shows as they are being aired,but that was pretty weak.I just skipped until that last few minuts.

Andrew wrote:Flash was good. Like, really good.


Oh yes it was.Great introduction for SG.Also,OQ* once more shines way better in someone elses show than he ever could in his own.

Andrew wrote:Not sure what Cisco was thinking straight when he confronted Barry. I get his feelings and they're totally justified but they were about to fight Aliens. Didn't make any sense other than as a plot device to allow Barry and Oliver to come to the rescue.


I disagree.His anger was the perfect motivation for this.

What did jump out at me,however,was sarahs hypocrisy.Not only was her entire team started by a man who wanted to change time so that his family would live(and he did screw with history at multiple points attempting that),not only did her team dick with time so they could change the outcome of one event,but she alone did try killing DD before he killed her sister.Basically,what the legends were telling BA is "You arent allowed to mess with time!Only we may dick with time as we please!Everyone else,fuck of!"

Andrew wrote:I'm also pretty sure that future Barry's message had nothing to do with Flashpoint. 40 years - that's just, so much time for Barry to screw up over and a over again!


Well,the implication is that he got wiser and did not do it again.Which could happen.At least theoretically.

Great crossover overall.And they are fighting sectoids from xcom 2.Thats awesome.

*HR is the best.I love his whole shtick.
Last edited by Daemian Lucifer on Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Andrew

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Andrew » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:05 am

Yes, Sectoids!!

When they asked Barry what they looked like the first thing that popped into my head was "oh, have you played this game called Xcom 2? Well.... "

Sadly, not to be..
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:09 am

By the way,did you got ham?Because got ham had some nice rhyming from the hatter.Also oceans 3.
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Andrew

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Andrew » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:29 am

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. So it must be a Gotham reference because, as usual, I haven't seen it yet!!
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:36 am

Andrew wrote:I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. So it must be a Gotham reference because, as usual, I haven't seen it yet!!


Come on,you have to see gotham!Because it got the most ham.Also a hilarious ending sequence of events.
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Andrew

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Andrew » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:50 am

Heh, I always find myself with less time at the start of the week so it's tough to prioritise Gotham.

But I do plan to get round to it before the weekend. Probably tomorrow night after we watch Survivor.
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Andrew

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Andrew » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:58 am

Daemian Lucifer wrote:What did jump out at me,however,was sarahs hypocrisy.Not only was her entire team started by a man who wanted to change time so that his family would live(and he did screw with history at multiple points attempting that),not only did her team dick with time so they could change the outcome of one event,but she alone did try killing DD before he killed her sister.Basically,what the legends were telling BA is "You arent allowed to mess with time!Only we may dick with time as we please!Everyone else,fuck of!"

I just saw this. It must have been your edit.

Sara basically employs the Oliver Queen set of logic to judging others actions and completely ignoring her own. It sorta makes sense. Her morals have always been pretty loose to begin with (I sometimes forget that she was the one who ran off with Oliver whilst Oliver was dating Laurel).

I guess it also makes perfect sense as to how Oliver is basically the only who understands Barry's position and empathises with him over it... "We all make mistakes, it's part of the job". No shit, Oliver!!!
Steve C

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Steve C » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:19 am

I just watched The Flash episode of the crossover episode set. What is the correct order? Arrow is after since that is what it said at the end of the episode. What came before? Anything? From the conversation here was the Supergirl episode before The Flash one? Is there a Legends one? I enjoyed it enough to want to watch the relevant episodes from the shows I normally don't watch. (Which is exactly what they were going for, so good on them.)
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Andrew

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Andrew » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:21 am

Supergirl was first but it wasn't really a crossover episode.

It literally had about 2 mins of Barry and Cisco at the very end (and a 5 second bit near the start where a failed vibe portal gets opened and then closes up). It's not worth watching for crossover purposes.

So it's Flash (yesterday) - Arrow (today) - Legends (tomorrow).
Steve C

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Steve C » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:25 am

Barry said it took a couple of tries to get to Supergirl's universe. Was that an adventure anywhere?
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Andrew

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Andrew » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:28 am

Nope. At the start of Supergirl there was some sort of family gathering for Thanksgiving. As they all sit down a Vibe portal opens up above the table for 5 seconds and then closes again with nothing else happening.

That was literally it.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:18 am

Andrew wrote:It literally had about 2 mins of Barry and Cisco at the very end


Which were repeated in the flash.So definitely not worth watching unless you are already watching the show.

Andrew wrote:Legends (tomorrow).


I see what you did there.

Anyway,the arrow part of the invasion was disappointing.Primarily,because it wasnt much of a crossover.BA,SG and CR were just brief cameos.Contrast to the flash where even when not used for anything,they still did that silly training,which allowed SG to show off.It was filler,but a nice filler.In here,theres nothing like that.

Second,that matrix thing was taking too much of the episode just to establish "they were extracting information".Also,no guards?These guys are as dumb as they are ugly.

Third,thea was the one breaking down and wanting illusion over real life?Thea,the person who already was in a similar situation last season,and who then said "Screw this,this isnt real!".And I always liked thea,so why did they do this to her?

Fourth,where were rory and firestorm duo?Why wasnt rory on the ship?If they didnt stick him in the same illusion as the rest,he couldve been in a separate one.But this way,its a huge plothole because:How do the sectoids know that he led a different life than these guys before they probed his mind?Did they think he didnt have any useful intel before they probed his mind?And tied to this,one huge problem with legends is that they keep forgetting that rory was a time hunter for quite a long time.Meaning that if he does not understand all that advanced tech,he at least knows how to use it,which is pretty useful.Rory should be a goldmine of information,and thats never used.As for firestorm,being metas means that they couldnt have been taken.Ok,so why werent they helping the others in any way?Even if they didnt want to use them as fighters,stein would still be useful as a geek.Are sectoids afraid of fire somehow?

Fifth,for an arrow episode that focuses on the b squad,they do absolutely zero things(and artemis isnt even there).Scratch that,one of them gets his ass kicked.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:31 am

The legends part is muuch better.An actual crossover.The only problem is the silly way the removed kara from it,but its forgiven.Also look,sectoids arent really evil,they just think differently.Its always nice to have an enemy like that.So I liked this conclusion to the crossover.
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Andrew

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Andrew » Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:39 am

I haven't seen Legends yet but I wanted to make a few comments on Arrow.

Firstly, I agree, it was a pretty poor episode considering the cast they had to work with and what they could have done with it.

I disagree on Thea, however. When she was in Darhk's artificial world she had no one there except a brainwashed boyfriend and her estranged, psychopathic, father. I think when you compare that to her mother, Laurel and the man she believed to be her father for most of her life, it's understandable that she would have 2nd thoughts. Of all the characters, Thea this season has been the weakest mentally - a culmination of her brainwashing by Malcolm, her lazarus pit experience and then threatening to kill Darhk's daughter and later realising that she may actually have gone through with it. All things considered, it makes sense to me that she would try and seek comfort in the arms of her loved ones (mostly lost, loved ones).

I like Thea too. She is probably my 2nd favourite on the cast of Arrow and I hate what they have done to her this season as well, although probably for different reasons to you.

A few other random thoughts:

1) The stuff with Flash, Supergirl and Oliver's misfits was pointless and stupid. And try and tell me that Supergirl and Flash didn't totally kill that electric meta with the slog to the face and clothesline. Meta or not, that lady's neck is broken 3 different times.

2) Wild Dog is an idiot. Worst character on Arrow for me.

3) Stephen Amell sure knows how to act in the sad scenes and put the feels on. His conversation with Thea when she tells him she wants to stay was excellent (as good as his goodbye to his son via video).

4) The entire escape from the Alien ship was improbable. From the unguarded pods they were in, to, apparently, the ONLY gun on the entire ship being at the entrance of the doorway, all the way to them figuring out how to work the escape pod/ship.

5) The Dominators use Tie Fighters!!!
Steve C

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Steve C » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:35 am

I watched the entire cross over now and Legends is just confusing now. They said that Snart died. What happened to Hawkgirl, and Rip Hunter? I'm guessing that was Vixen. They couldn't even bother to introduce or at least address her by name? Who's the guy who turns into metal? Rip Hunter was kind of important for the premise of the show. Isn't anyone from the future on the ship? Are they really flying around in a timeship that they are just guessing how to fly?
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Andrew

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Andrew » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:37 pm

I think more than any of the other shows, Legends is really the one you need to have watched the whole season to understand what's happening and who's who. I'll give you a quick summary. There will be massive Legends spoilers for season 1 and 2 and I'm not putting spoiler tags so fair warning.

1) Snart died towards the end of season 1. He sacrificed himself so the rest of the team could escape. He comes back later this season as part of the Legion of Doom (Reverse Flash, Merlyn, Darhk and Snart).
2) Hawkgirl left with Hawkman at the end of Season 1. They're having babies or something..
3) Rip "died" in the season 2 premiere. The ship went down and he saved everyone else before going down with the ship because apparently that's better than saving yourself. Anyway, he's probably not dead.
4) That wasn't the Vixen from Arrow and the animated shorts. That was Amaya - she was introduced in the 2nd (or 3rd) episode of season 2. Formerly a part of the 1940's Justice Society of America she joined the team a few episodes in. I think one of the show writers has confirmed that she is the grandmother of the Vixen we meet in Arrow/Animated short.
5) The steel guy is Commander Steel (HA) AKA Nate Haywood. He is a historian who, in the premiere of season 2, enlisted Oliver's aid to find the crashed timeship (see point 3). He gained his powers a few episodes ago.

They are sort of learning on the fly but there was a token effort by the writer's to explain that before Rip left he taught some of the crew the things they need to survive (Ie, he routinely made Jax repair and upkeep the ship with a view to ensuring Jax understood the inner workings of the ship).

Sara is now their captain.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:18 pm

Also,theres supposed to be a time skip between season 1 and 2,when they replaced the time council and did a bunch of training with rip.So,theoretically,they shouldnt be incompetent about meddling with time.
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Andrew

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Andrew » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:45 am

Ha, so Malfoy is also Indiana Jones. Nice!

The Trickster stuff was fine. For a cameo. Why did he look like the Joker though?

Any episode with Jay Garrick in it is awesome.

All in all an excellent mid-season finale (if that's what it actually was, I'm just guessing) except for that prediction. Who falls? Who betrays who? Who suffers a fate worse than death? This is Arrow season 4 levels of unwanted mystery! Cue spooky music...
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:15 am

Andrew wrote:Who falls?


Iris.We see her die.

Andrew wrote:Who suffers a fate worse than death?


The flash.He was stuck in the speed force,if I understood correctly.Thats a fate worse than death.

Andrew wrote:Who betrays who?


Wally maybe?He is a hothead.
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Andrew

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Andrew » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:52 pm

Daemian Lucifer wrote:
Andrew wrote:Who falls?


Iris.We see her die.

You don't actually believe this though, do you? We're talking about Barry's anchor here - without Iris, Barry Allen as the Flash just doesn't work.

I know they killed off Laurel in Arrow but this is something completely different.

I do believe that that scene will occur towards the end of the season (because why show it otherwise?) but maybe Iris isn't actually dead. Or maybe they were tricking Savitar somehow. Maybe it's Hypertime or some alternate reality. Whatever the case, I don't believe she's dead or will die. Not for a second.

Daemian Lucifer wrote:
Andrew wrote:Who suffers a fate worse than death?


The flash.He was stuck in the speed force,if I understood correctly.Thats a fate worse than death.

I would believe this. And Barry being stuck in the speed force is as iconic as Iris being his anchor so yeah, fair enough.

Daemian Lucifer wrote:
Andrew wrote:Who betrays who?


Wally maybe?He is a hothead.

Maybe. My first thought was Caitlin but that seems a bit too on the nose with the whole Killer Frost thing.

I still like HR as a smokey for being an undercover bad guy.

I guess it could also be unintentional betrayal. Like how Barry unintentionally changed everyone's lives when he tried to save his mum.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: DC Universe thread- (Holy SPOILERS Batman!)

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:30 am

The whole "I love you so much to see you hurt,so Im leaving" trope is so stupid.If you really love someone,you dont leave just so you dont have to watch them being hurt,because that is precisely how they will get hurt.You know,being distracted while doing something dangerous,and stuff like that.Its the most selfish thing you can do to someone you supposedly love.And its so much worse when the couple in question is married for a few years already.I hate that trope.

I had an interesting thought:It would be so cool if prometheus was actually related to one of the mooks,and not one of the big bads that oliver killed.That would be something actually clever that they could pull off.Which is why Im confident it would never happen,not on this show.

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