Doctor Who?

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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:23 am

Oh my god,they actually did it.She is the master.I can die happy now.

Oh,the episode was quite good up until that point(especially the acting),but that point was a fangirl squee moment for me.
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Thomas

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Thomas » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:05 pm

Hah =D on Friday evening I was complaining to people that they should bring that character back (and the person replied with the female perspective thing :P)
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4th Dimension

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby 4th Dimension » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:12 pm

Yup it's confirmed Master was definetly gay for Doctor :)

Also at the beggining while Danny was crossing the road, I joked to myself "and than he gets hit by a car and dies. The END" and guess what.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:54 pm

4th Dimension wrote:and guess what.


It wasnt the end?
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Ringwraith

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Ringwraith » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:20 pm

Opinion of catching up on Doctor Who: Yes.
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Thomas

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Thomas » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:25 am

Great episode. So much fun. I think this season is a success.

On the topic of female Master on the one hand it's great that we've lost one of the big arguments against a female Doctor. From now on, as long as the series still exists, it's inevitable that we'll get a female Doctor. On the other hand, this demonstrated perfectly just how horrible a Moffat female Doctor would be. You mean a Moffat character is sexually aggressive and conveniently quirky? Oh my! Yet another Irene Adler/River Song/Amy Pond. As much as this season was a vast improvement on the normal Moffat run, I still don't want him showrunning and I want my female Doctor from a person whose capable of writing people as people.

It's not even like his women are bad characters. They're kind of like Joss Whedon characters. Except it's someone who writes a normal variety of people most of the time, except when they have ovaries in which case they're have to be a Joss Whedon character.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:46 am

Except master(as well as the doctor)was always quirky.Pretending to be a robot fits so well.Ditto for trying to be close to the doctor.
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Thomas

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Thomas » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:29 am

Oh it's true, but at best it's a broken clock happening to be right. But even then this one is quirky in a way that Irene Adler and River Song were, but not John Simms
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:09 am

Thomas wrote:Oh it's true, but at best it's a broken clock happening to be right. But even then this one is quirky in a way that Irene Adler and River Song were, but not John Simms


Ah,but Simm was quirky in a way that Delgado wasnt.Havent seen the other incarnations of the master,but my guess is that they too were different from Simms(as well as Delgado).Just how every doctor is weird in his own way.
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Ringwraith

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Ringwraith » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:19 am

Yeah, seems to be a different-yet-similar take from John's Simms' incarnation thus far. (Well, before the first time, probably the less said about the second the better...)
At least as far as cheerily doing horrible, horrible things while dropping references in completely tonally inappropriate contexts at least.
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Thomas

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Thomas » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:25 pm

I agree everyone has their different quirks, but this ones just so happens to be the quirks that all the other Moffat characters have.

Like for example, I really didn't like that whole Mistress nonsense. Sure Mistress is the gender equivalent of Master of the house, but they've got completely different connotations and Master works fine for either gender. You don't have Chess 'Grandmistresses'. They're chess 'grandmasters'. Someone is a 'master of the fine arts' for both genders, you don't have people going round saying they're 'a mistress of the fine arts'. There's no need to change her name, it's the same person and the Master is her name. Mistress is more sexual than Master and it doesn't have the connotations of clever, masterful, skillful etc.

Sure it's a little detail, but he's a writer, thinking about the connotations of the words people use to describe themselves is literally his job.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:46 pm

Sometimes a cigar is just a big brown pen...I mean a cigar!Just a cigar!

Besides,she isnt named mistress,she is missy.
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Ringwraith

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Ringwraith » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:50 pm

Considering the dramatic makeover shift, it's not beyond the ever-taunting and flippant personality to change name, especially if it aggravates the Doctor (by forcing him to come to the conclusion he really, really doesn't want to draw, as it's probably right).
Besides, where's the fun in laying all the cards out straight away?
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Thomas

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Thomas » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:06 pm

:( I didn't enjoy that. I came round to the master a lot more but the rest of the episode... they were playing hot potato with the idiot ball the whole way through.

"Sir, we got a tip from someone sounding exactly like the master that led to us putting her on this plane, isn't that funny"

"I, the evil maniac want you to come close to me so I can whisper in you're ear. I promise that I'll tell you something important. Honest. Don't believe me? What about if I tell you I'm an evil maniac? - Oh that actually worked"

"I'm next to a supposedly handcuffed prisoner who just asked me to whisper into her ear and now I've got handcuffs in my pocket. Ho-hum, I wonder what that could mean"
"Oh look that supposedly handcuffed prisoner (whose just reminded us she's an evil maniac), clearly isn't handcuffed. Maybe we should just stand here a bit more"
"Oh look that supposedly handcuffed prisoner (evil maniac), is doing her lipstick. Good thing we've got these guns so we can shoot her when she does something suspicious"
"Oh look that supposedly handcuffed prisoner (maniac who is evil), has got up, walked across the room behind our boss whilst her back is turned. Yep I'm glad we've got these guns which we might use sometime"

"Haha! I've successfully tricked them to take me prisoner on the plane so that... my cybermen can kill it which they could have done without me... and now I'm going to blow the plane up with the Doctor on it. But my plan totally involves him being alive. And on the ground. And talking to me. Like he was shortly before I put into action the 'get myself arrested so I could be on a plane with the doctor so I can blow it up so that he can talk to me on the ground like he's doing now' - plan. Super glad those cringe special effects were necessary"

"Hi I'm danny. I have a functioning body, all my thoughts feelings and emotions and I don't appear to be controlled by any outside influence. But don't worry, I'm dead"

(This is a two-parter)
"I need to turn you into a cyberman so that you can tell me her evil plans (which I'm sure I couldn't figure out any other way, like I do in every other episode.) So goodbye and what were her plans?"
"She's going to do something bad"

"Haha! You've stepped into my cunning trap of proving you're evil by giving you dominion over the entire earth which you just had 30 seconds ago and I'm so sure you're going to be evil now unlike all those other times when you actively stopped me from taking over the earth despite having the opportunity to do something like that"

"Don't worry, Love isn't an emotion! So I guess all the cybermen we've ever seen had the capacity for love all along! I'm sure that 'emotion removing process' was for um, mild anxiety maybe?"

"Oh look he's tossing the Cybermen controlling bracelet to the cyberman I can't control. Well no worries, I'm pretty sure he can't do anything with that. I'll just taunt him a bit more about how one cyberman, by himself, all alone, without any other cybermen, can't do anything to stop me"

"I'm the one other person in the world who cared enough to override their cyberman programming"

"There is a cyberman afterlife. And you can send organic bodies through it"

"Let me just get sidetracked from talking about the death of the one person I truly loved"

Also, that kid on the skateboard on the Cardiff high street in the end, is totally going to be a recurring villain :P
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:46 am

Plenty of those I didnt have a problem with.Master was always using hypnosis,either literally or just in hints.Plus,shklee is insane.And shklee was always obsessed with proving the doctor is like shklim more than with conquering anything.

Cyberman resisting the thing was established earlier,so Im ok with that.Especially since they finally had(sort of)an appearance of brigadier in the new who.And in dead form,no less(not sure if part that was intentional).

Dany and clara thing though....not so much.

So overall I enjoyed it.Though turning the clara doctor relationship into this toxic thing,not a fan of that one,at all.Still,not like the doctor didnt already had such a thing with his companions in the old who.So this is more a turn back to those days.I guess that makes some sense.But still not a fan of how it played out.
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Thomas

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Thomas » Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:04 am

I think it was the plane bit that did it for me. That sequence was bad enough that I was struggling to figure what they intended to show (I still can't figure out if the master teleported behind Bow Tie Lady or if that was just really bad editing and blocking). It took me out of it enough that I wasn't ready to be receptive to some of the more normal Doctor Who handwaves
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Thomas

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Thomas » Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:52 pm

I've been thinking about it and I just can't get along with this whole 'love isn't an emotion' business. It's a good thing Danny Pink and the Brigadier are literally the only people in the world who've ever loved someone, or else the Cybermen would be completely freaking useless. What's the point of creating an army of mooks that will do whatever you say unless they have someone who they're close to?

If it was just Danny Pink you could handwave it as it taking time for the inhibitor to actually do it's job and inhibit. But the brigadier? I'm sorry, he's not the only person who loves his daughter, in fact I reckon the majority of people in those graves have children and spouses and parents and siblings who they also love just as strongly. If 'loving your daughter' is all that was needed, then there should have been more Cybermen fighting against the master than with her. Heck, Danny and Clara hadn't really known each other for that long. They would've totally split up after a couple of years, or got in a messy marriage that ends in affairs and divorces.

If cybermen can feel love, then whats the point of cybermen?
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Ringwraith

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Ringwraith » Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:00 pm

Thomas wrote:If cybermen can feel love, then whats the point of cybermen?

As much as everyone probably prefers to not acknowledge the episode's existence, it's already been established that Cybermen can't deal with the concept of love very well.
Enough willpower can muck up the intended programming.
A soldier's promise apparently being a powerful thing, but they never said there weren't any other cases of cybermen going rogue like that, and those two had the good fortune of being near the relevant people. Probably less likely to happen if they were miles away.
Daemian Lucifer wrote:Especially since they finally had(sort of)an appearance of brigadier in the new who.And in dead form,no less(not sure if part that was intentional).

Well, his actor died, therefore it was mentioned in a previous series the Brigadier had also died.
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4th Dimension

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby 4th Dimension » Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:24 pm

I also did not completly enjoy this episode. The plot didn't move much through actions of characters but more through silly circumstances and Master. Other people were mostly just standing around and responding. Like Clara pretending to be Doctor. They could have actually gone somewhere with that, but as it is, most of the scenes felt . . . felt . . . like padding I think. It all felt a lot flat. It might be the limited color pallete at the end with all the greys of the cemetary.

And was Masters plan for Clara really to find somebody persisten enough so when somebody she likes dies they would move Heaven and Earth to get Doctor to try to find the dead person, and thus bring him to Master. Sounds complicated. Simply threathening Earth and sending him an SMS "I'm at Earth shanking Humies. Oh I'm so evil!" would have made him come running.

That time astronaut from early episodes is simply somebody who looks amaizingly like Danny Pink? And has the same surname? Okay.

How was Master brought back? The last version died completly. So are we dealing with a past Time War Master who will eventually become the old Master and die?
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Thomas

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Thomas » Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:42 pm

4th Dimension wrote:That time astronaut from early episodes is simply somebody who looks amaizingly like Danny Pink? And has the same surname? Okay.

And has the same toy that Clara passed on down to Pink. Unless the Tardis just took her to the house of someone who had the same name, nickname and background as Danny.

Maybe he's got a twin brother?
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Ringwraith

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Ringwraith » Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:49 pm

4th Dimension wrote:That time astronaut from early episodes is simply somebody who looks amaizingly like Danny Pink? And has the same surname? Okay.

"Time can be rewritten"?
I guess?
There's been a lot talk this series about that things are not always set in stone.
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4th Dimension

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby 4th Dimension » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:29 pm

He had the toy? I forgot about that. Than this is sloppy writing considering this episode is supposed to close down Clara adventures.
I was about to try to explain it with Moffat siging off on a scrip that he didn't read completly when I noticed he wrote that episode?!?!
And he didn't really need that Astronaut. He could have explained why they went to end of time and encountered some other temponaut some other way.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:51 pm

4th Dimension wrote:How was Master brought back? The last version died completly. So are we dealing with a past Time War Master who will eventually become the old Master and die?


That is what master has always done.In fact,the biggest problem with the master in the new who for fans of the old show is when they tried to explain how he got back from the dead.

And if you think about it,all the villains in doctor who have the tendency to inexplicably resurrect.Just count the time daleks were completely wiped out in the new who alone.

Ringwraith wrote:Well, his actor died, therefore it was mentioned in a previous series the Brigadier had also died.


I know that,but I was rather talking about the fact that when they finally decided to bring him back they did it in the form of a reanimated corpse,instead of using old footage and cgi like they did with older doctors.
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4th Dimension

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby 4th Dimension » Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:18 pm

Oh I know that a lot of bad guys have an annoying tendency to switch bodies and come back. But it is also my understanding that during the last encounter with the Master he was 100% completly and utterly destroeyed.
* wikiing *
Ohhh, it seems Master was thrown into the Time War during theri last enocounter when Doctor stopped the return of the Time Lords. That would explain his return.
Steve C

Re: Doctor Who?

Postby Steve C » Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:23 am

Ringwraith wrote:
4th Dimension wrote:That time astronaut from early episodes is simply somebody who looks amaizingly like Danny Pink? And has the same surname? Okay.

"Time can be rewritten"?
I guess?
There's been a lot talk this series about that things are not always set in stone.

Time can be rewritten including paradoxes. Matt Smith showed how it could be done with the Impossible Astronaut. This whole arc became a plot hole as soon as Danny died. The Doctor knows that if you fake events then the paradox is accommodated and things are good. All he had to do was go back in time and fake Danny's death so that Clara thinks Danny is dead when she asks for the Doctor's help. Instead we get this whole nethersphere stuff.

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