Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Detail)

Necromance old blog posts, talk about Shamus' books or videos, or discuss allied projects like Errant Signal
Forum rules
This forum is not for swiping blog threads. Avoid talking about blog posts less than a month old.
User avatar
CraigM

Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Detail)

Postby CraigM » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:24 pm

So it seems several of us have started watching the Shield series, so time to give the discussion it's own place to call home. So here we go. First off anyone reading be prepared for no holds barred spoilers, and comic geekery to the max.

So first off after 3 weeks I'm interested, has some neat ideas. There does seem to be the typical reliance of Wheedonisms, up to and especially the pithy remark. Mostly I'm ok with this. I do like how the last episode developed, and how it really focused on exploring the ideologies of the different characters. Coulston's encounter with the scientist in this episode was a rather neat exploration of what each stood for. Elements like that could really drive the show into interesting directions, and I hope they introduce more of that.

I also liked what they did with Skye. The conflicted allegiance thing could get old quickly, but there does seem to be an attempt to develop her character a bit more. For now I'm hoping they stay away from the more stock options.

So my general take away was that I thought this was the best episode yet, and that shows the most promise. If they can keep away from the stereotypical plots this could be quite good.

Daemian Lucifer wrote:Anyhow,I was wondering how did coulson come back from the dead?What does marvel prefer to use in such situations?Robots,resurrection,or something else?


Can't answer. My entire exposure to comic characters is through various movies. Never fear, I'm sure there is a resident Marvel expert around to help answer this.
User avatar
Lachlan the Sane
Location: I come from the land down under, where women blow and men chunder

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Lachlan the Sane » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:15 pm

(Clarification: In Australia, we got the first two episodes of Agents last week as a double-bill. From now on, we'll see them on our Thursday nights, about 12 hours after America).

Regarding Coulson's coming back from the dead; have you noticed that every time he mentions Tahiti, bar none, he refers to it as "a magical place"? I call massive clue on that phrase.
User avatar
Kavonde
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Contact:

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Kavonde » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:25 pm

I enjoyed the first two episodes, but I think episode three has officially sold me on this series. Everything about it seemed a bit tighter than the last two; even Fitzsimmons weren't quite so mumbly. We met some major new villainous players, got some cool new tech that isn't based on the alien invasion for once, and got some actual character development for Skye and Broody Agent Guy. (I'll figure his name out eventually.)

Seriously, I think one sentence ("A level-one overshare that miraculously got you to cooperate") did more to establish a personality for that guy than the entire two episodes prior.

Plus, we have our first supervillain! And he's actually based on an established Marvel character, for bonus geek points! I'm just a wee bit pleased by this turn of events, I must say.
User avatar
CraigM

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby CraigM » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:42 pm

The Tahiti thing is interesting for sure, and definitely a clue not all is as it seems (ok obvious and impossible to miss clue). Personally I'm officially staking this agent Coulson is a not-Coulson. I'm not sure if that means clone, robot, or what, but I'm betting this is not the same physical being as the one from the Avengers. Just my 2c.
User avatar
Retsam

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Retsam » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:18 am

CraigM wrote:The Tahiti thing is interesting for sure, and definitely a clue not all is as it seems (ok obvious and impossible to miss clue). Personally I'm officially staking this agent Coulson is a not-Coulson. I'm not sure if that means clone, robot, or what, but I'm betting this is not the same physical being as the one from the Avengers. Just my 2c.


Yeah, this seems to pretty much be the consensus. Life Model Decoys, basically androids, are pretty common in the comics, I understand, and there's even the connection that Ultron, the Avengers 2 villain, is sometimes connected with LMDs. I'm actually more interested in whether or not he knows. The first episode seemed to indicate not, with someone commenting "Tahiti. He really doesn't know, does he?" out of his earshot, but then the second episode has him retorting Reyes "midlife crisis" comment with "more like an afterlife crisis". Maybe he's just referring to the fact that he was (according to himself) medically dead for several seconds, but it could also mean that he's aware that "Tahiti" isn't the whole story.
User avatar
Ringwraith

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Ringwraith » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:58 am

Lachlan the Mad wrote:(Clarification: In Australia, we got the first two episodes of Agents last week as a double-bill. From now on, we'll see them on our Thursday nights, about 12 hours after America).

For those host to the Queen of the Commonwealth, we get it on Fridays, so over 40 hours later.
User avatar
Lachlan the Sane
Location: I come from the land down under, where women blow and men chunder

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Lachlan the Sane » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:38 am

Ringwraith wrote:
Lachlan the Mad wrote:(Clarification: In Australia, we got the first two episodes of Agents last week as a double-bill. From now on, we'll see them on our Thursday nights, about 12 hours after America).

For those host to the Queen of the Commonwealth, we get it on Fridays, so over 40 hours later.

It was actually on 24 hours ago. Now I have to navigate Network 7's awful rewatching service. :(
User avatar
modus0

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby modus0 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:28 pm

I'm fairly certain, after this week's episode, that we will eventually learn the truth about Coulson.

Anyone else connect the dialogue between Skye and Ward regarding "muscle memory" to Agent Coulson's difficulty when fiddling with the pistol (something he alluded to having done enough times that he shouldn't be having problems)? Coulson's a smart man, I think he'll eventually figure out that it's not because he's rusty, but because this body hasn't done all the things he remembers doing.


And I'm actually kind of suspicious that the Rising Tide might actually be HYDRA using a cover-identity and ignorant operatives to discredit and hinder SHIELD.

The only real issue I had with this episode was them claiming that "Gravitonium" as element 132 was able to be found naturally occurring in mines, and in large quantities at that.
Steve C

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Steve C » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:34 pm

If Coulson knows what Tahiti means, it gives a whole new meaning to "You should try it." Which he's said to multiple people now.
User avatar
krellen
Location: The City in New Mexico
Contact:

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby krellen » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:13 pm

I'm really hoping the "mystery" surrounding Coulson is a double-blind and the reveal will be that, nope, we were being fooled and it really is just Coulson. Because that would be the REAL twist.
User avatar
Ringwraith

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Ringwraith » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:43 pm

"Does he know?"
"He can never know, it wasn't Tahiti, it was Blackpool."
User avatar
krellen
Location: The City in New Mexico
Contact:

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby krellen » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:50 pm

Kavonde wrote:And he's actually based on an established Marvel character, for bonus geek points!

I mean, sure, it's a slightly new origin story, but is it really "based on" when it's the same powers, the same name, the same background? Dr. Franklin Hall IS Graviton.
User avatar
Thomas

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Thomas » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:30 pm

I don't know if it's the same in the US, but I find it funny that the slogan of their sponsors over here is

'Superhero rely on their powers, real heroes rely on their skills'

I guess it sort of fits in with SHIELD?
User avatar
Thomas

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Thomas » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:44 pm

What the fuck? Can we go back to the point where it was okay to kill Hall like that? Or at least get a little bit of consequence in here please. Not being able to change a friggin' magazine shouldn't have been the thought that Coulson was ruminating on in the post-action dénouement. Also did I mishear, did they say 'we need a catalyst' as in literally any chemical at all, or was it established that a human body was what was needed to shut that down. Could they have thrown a potted plant in there and have it turn itself off?

I don't know if it even felt like they couldn't evacuate the danger area if they needed. The bad guy seemed like he would've had plenty of time to fly away. And considering it was A-okay that one good guy should die to preserve the lives of others, I kind of feel like Hall was really justified in his actions. At the very least if its okay to shoot him to save the day, maybe they could just shoot the villain too on their way out.


On the other hand all that doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. At least Graviton will provide some sort of consequence and there's still a chance that Coulson is going to pay a price mentally for this. But it intensifies the problem, before the episode even started I was thinking that Coulson needs to have a fall or prove his worth, because he had one little geeky heroic moment, that was all the more heroic because he was the last sort of guy to show any sign of being able to capable of that sort of heroics, and now it's been blown up into this whole thing which completely forgets that that was his special moment and not his day to day. And now he's strutting around, dispensing wisdom and dropping names, telling people to trust him because the plots totally going to show you he was right latter on and you can bet he was banging hot chicks back in the day, he's still got it but he's not going to fall for any of that mumbo jumbo, he can tell when they're faking it...

...and again this is all okay. If it blows up in his face and he comes back down to earth and realises he needs to work hard in modesty and support from his team. Or if he does something genuinely difficult and genuinely heroic that shows he's earned his strut. The sniper I've already said was an opportunity, and this can be an opportunity too. As long as killing someone creates a genuine internal toll. Life isn't easy, his decisions aren't easy and he keeps up this appearance of confidence to try and hide the uncertainty he feels every time he has to make the call and pull the trigger.

But I waited once already for them to do that and was disappointed, maybe it would be better to accept that they won't and be surprised?


Other than that, the episode genuinely surprised me which was nice. And I thought the whole Hall thing was really cool, up until the point it didn't happen. When they started the episode I thought 'I hope her special moment isn't going to be the normal story thing where she just hits someone or does the disarming move properly' and well, that's all that happened, but I was distracted by the whole Hall thing so I don't really know if she was meant to have had it yet or if it was something else
User avatar
Kavonde
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Contact:

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Kavonde » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:09 am

Thomas wrote:Other than that, the episode genuinely surprised me which was nice. And I thought the whole Hall thing was really cool, up until the point it didn't happen. When they started the episode I thought 'I hope her special moment isn't going to be the normal story thing where she just hits someone or does the disarming move properly' and well, that's all that happened, but I was distracted by the whole Hall thing so I don't really know if she was meant to have had it yet or if it was something else


The clichéness of the "doing the disarm move properly" moment was mitigated, for me, by the dialogue. "Do you really think you have what it takes to shoot me?" "Nope!" That was a very funny, very Whedon-y moment. Hit the spot.
User avatar
Thomas

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Thomas » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:23 am

The nope was brilliant =D
User avatar
Ringwraith

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Ringwraith » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:28 am

Then promptly leaving the room.
It's what sold it really.
Steve C

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Steve C » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:24 am

They couldn't evacuate Malta. It would have affected the entire island according to FitzSimmons. I'm unsure if Hall was willing to kill thousands. That doesn't make sense given that he was doing a selfless act to save people. Maybe he believed it affected a smaller area. But that also creates a plot problem. Either it affected a lot of people and he wouldn't want to do it the first place or it affected a small area and he would have been able to escape. There was no reason to go down with the ship. Hall's only real goal was to destroy it and Coulson was ok with that. I couldn't figure out the logic used in any of that scene.

However the whole "We can't do ____ because the government would object" I didn't buy. That premise was dumb on so many levels.
User avatar
Thomas

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Thomas » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:13 am

I was confused why he figured he couldn't escape. It sounded like he believed it would only take out the facility, but I thought maybe he decided that this is one of those decisions that you couldn't step away from. He allowed himself to create civilian casualties to bury a potentially catastrophic technology, but only if he was willing to lose his own life for it too.

One of the sadder moments with Hall there is that Hall felt SHIELD were untrustworthy based on one of their lies. Maybe it was meant to be hinting? But it didn't really seem like a time for subtlety or the kind of guy who would do that (Unless they were trying to avoid spoilers for the Avengers). He thought he couldn't trust Shield because they took the Tesseract and tried to exploit it for infinite energy, and actually that was just their cover story for taking the Tesseract and using it to create weapons.

I hope they go into that a bit more when they're 3/4's of the way through the series, SHIELD really isn't the organisation I'd trust enough to give unlimited power and no oversight and they've been dirty all the way through, I feel like there could be some cool drama in there, particularly with Coulson's involvement in one of their tricks
User avatar
modus0

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby modus0 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:26 pm

I think Hall's intent of self-sacrifice was so that no one else could use his knowledge to make something like that again.

Of course, that also required Quinn to not realize what was happening and flee, like he did.
User avatar
Ringwraith

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Ringwraith » Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:36 am

Seeing as grams of the stuff affected a few feet, a blob that large would probably a very large chunk of Malta with it, seeing as it was several hundred times the size.
User avatar
Thomas

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Thomas » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:03 am

Several hundred times a few feet is like several hundred feet. That's still about ten thousand times less than the size of malta. If we say the disturbance in the road was 3.5 metres squared then we're talking about it needing to cover an area one hundred thousand times larger.

Malta has got a population of 450,000 people, I'm finding it really hard to believe that the scientists could have possibly been considering singlehandedly killing more people than the US lost soldiers in WW2. He didn't seem batshit insane
User avatar
Ringwraith

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Ringwraith » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:48 pm

Well, I wasn't attempting to be accurate, they could be applying exponential rules for all I know, but the point is, a rather large area would be folded in on itself or whatever, and people would get killed regardless.
User avatar
Thomas

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby Thomas » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:48 pm

Well considering it's underground in basically an evil lair of a bad guy who deliberately keeps a large perimeter and has an actual force field to stop other people getting into that area. And this is a bad guy whose just evacuated the area and it's meant to sink when it loses control so it will quickly move away from the surface, then actually we're talking the 15 people he invited to his party. And they could all totally get on a helicopter.

And considering SHIELD were happy to be using the kill people to save others logic. 15 people for the price of burying a technology that would kill 1000's if activated in manhattan?
User avatar
CraigM

Re: Agents of SHIELD (Spoilers Here, In Extra Ludicrous Deta

Postby CraigM » Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:57 am

In deference to the non-Americans I will hold off on detail for the moment, but I just want to state that I think we've finally hit on what will be the main thread going forward. Now we (kinda) know who is going to be the big bad this season. Not much to move the story forward, but did some decent character development. Naturally more teasing about Coulson's nature. That said time for the non-sequiter lines coyly playing around with his mystery to start to give way to substance. At this point unless they plan on revealing something about it I don't want them to bring it up again. Just saying.

Return to “Twenty Sided Stuff”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest