Order of the stick

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Daemian Lucifer

Order of the stick

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:05 pm

Because its awesome.Anyhow:

Akri wrote:Yeah, that was...wow. Poor Not Nale. But not poor Nale, because he friggin deserved it.


thog fix quote.

4th Dimension wrote:Huh, that was random. On the other hand that means we'll need another group of baddies for the heroes to fight while they quest for the other gate


Well they already have the big bad,the butch litch xykon and his bitch wrong eye.On that note,buy,read and reread the start of darkness.It kicks seven kinds of asses.

I wonder if tarquin will face xykon before the end though.Since his battle with soon,xykon really didnt face anyone of his power level,and he should duke it out with at least one more big boy.
Traiden
Location: Traveling

Re: Order of the stick

Postby Traiden » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:11 pm

I did see something like this coming when we where introduced to a man who reads the freaking evil overlord list. It was very clear we where going to be trading up soon.
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Thomas

Re: Order of the stick

Postby Thomas » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:14 pm

I'm thinking we must be nearing the end now right? Either that or the big third act twist where the place behind the snarl changes everything. An ending was planned and he could probably reach it pretty easily with 90 pages, things have got real, one gate left, Durkon's closer to fulfilling his prophecy. I guess they could explore more with him (if there's the big twist) but it's not very necessary.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Order of the stick

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:19 pm

Well yes,we are nearing the end,but seeing how this next phase would be another book altogether,I predict at least 200 more pages.Plus a few more extras(maybe thats where we will see durkula come back home and have his revenge).
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Akri

Re: Order of the stick

Postby Akri » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:27 pm

I'm expecting Not Nale to have Nale resurrected, because of course he will.

Also, I have absolutely no recollection of this place beyond the Snarl V mentioned. I have an extremely vague idea of when it might have been discovered, but that's it.
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Thomas

Re: Order of the stick

Postby Thomas » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:41 pm

When we were last talking about when OoTs is likely to end, I'd actually forgotten about the whole gate thing altogether =D I also can't remember when the idea of a place beyond the Snarl was brought up
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swenson
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Re: Order of the stick

Postby swenson » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:59 am

I probably should've seen it coming, but I didn't. I just thought... well, that he actually had some sort of care for a family relationship there.

Akri wrote:I'm expecting Not Nale to have Nale resurrected, because of course he will.

Also, I have absolutely no recollection of this place beyond the Snarl V mentioned. I have an extremely vague idea of when it might have been discovered, but that's it.


Oh, I agree completely. No way Elan would just leave Nale like that.

I remember the place beyond the Snarl, but I don't remember exactly what it was... I have this idea that it was the real world, but I have no idea where that thought came from or if it makes sense at all. Anybody know when it was that was seen so I can go back and check?
RedSun
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Re: Order of the stick

Postby RedSun » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:00 am

I think Not Nale will try to have Nale resurrected, but get shot down by either Icky Girl or Talky Man. Either way, it'll be interesting to see what Sabine does and how the IFCC will react. I mean, if we know she'd go AWOL and try to resurrect him immediately, they probably know too.

All said, I've grown to really like Nale the past few years. I've always loved villains that are ambitious, but also kinda pathetic, and don't have all that much hope of ever really winning. And honestly, the idea of Nale going through all the abuse that must've come from being raised by Tarquin makes him seem so much more human.

And if Elan does ressurect him? I'm pretty sure he'll stick by him. Remember, Nale wanted Elan to join him before he wanted to kill him, and I think his ability to take care of his own and inspire loyalty in his followers is what keeps him Lawful Evil instead of Neutral.
wheals

Re: Order of the stick

Postby wheals » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:48 am

swenson wrote:I remember the place beyond the Snarl, but I don't remember exactly what it was... I have this idea that it was the real world, but I have no idea where that thought came from or if it makes sense at all. Anybody know when it was that was seen so I can go back and check?

You mean this page? (And this page, obviously.)
The theory that the world beyond the Snarl is the real world is a popular one, and I'm fairly sure it was so popular, in fact, that Rich Burlew has specifically said that the theory is worng. Unless he didn't and I'm imagining things?
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swenson
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Re: Order of the stick

Postby swenson » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:45 pm

Ah, I knew it had to come from something! Thanks.
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Grudgeal

Re: Order of the stick

Postby Grudgeal » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:06 pm

Daemian Lucifer wrote:I wonder if tarquin will face xykon before the end though.Since his battle with soon,xykon really didnt face anyone of his power level,and he should duke it out with at least one more big boy.

Thanks to 3.5 rules, a fighter will never be the power level of an equal level sorcerer, or even a sorcerer 3-4 levels lower once you get high enough in levels. Xykon is epic level, and even if Tarquin is also epic (which hasn't been proven, only that he's higher levelled than the Order and probably 17+ given at least one of his companions is) the playing field wouldn't even be close to even. Besides, events in V's ultimate power arc and Start of Darkness has shown that Xykon can be much more dangerous than he seems if his villain cred is being challenged by anything but a clear-cut good vs. evil struggle. If anyone were to pull out a narrative twist there I'd expect it coming from Xykon more than Tarquin, despite the latter's awareness of genre conventions.

Narratively it wouldn't make sense either. Xykon would have to be the one to force the confrontation since Tarquin is too aware of genre conventions not to know that butting into his son's story puts him in a precarious position (of course it isn't really his son's story: Xykon is Roy and Redcloak's nemesis, which makes Tarquin even *less* important in that area, but Tarquin isn't aware of that). If Tarquin were to fight him he'd probably lose, both in the case of rules and narratively speaking: The plot is too involved in Xykon and Redcloak for them to be anything other than Big Bad and having Tarquin take over at this stage would be a cop-out that wouldn't subvert expectations as break the story entirely.

Somehow I expect the current events in the comic to bring an end to the Order's travels in the Western Continent and with it Tarquin's importance to the storyline. Though it would not surprise me in the slightest if the Giant decided to kill off Tarquin too to bring an even *more* shocking conclusion to Elan's current character arc. I just don't expect Xykon to be the one to do it.

Anyway, as to Nale, his interactions with Malack and Tarquin before the ensuing deaths revealed more of his character since his first appearance. And it makes me wonder exactly what Malack and Nale's full story was -- Nale seemed to take killing Malack really personally and the "planning to kill you since I was nine" line sounds like a backstory hook Tarquin will possibly have to fill in. Nale's death seems almost too narratively powerful not to be final: This was his final chance to join with his father and he chose to go on his own, and unlike Roy he's not a main character.
Last edited by Grudgeal on Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Draxom

Re: Order of the stick

Postby Draxom » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:09 pm

Thomas wrote:I'm thinking we must be nearing the end now right? Either that or the big third act twist where the place behind the snarl changes everything. An ending was planned and he could probably reach it pretty easily with 90 pages, things have got real, one gate left, Durkon's closer to fulfilling his prophecy. I guess they could explore more with him (if there's the big twist) but it's not very necessary.


So I have been looking for a while and i can't find it. Can anyone link to the pages that explain Durkon's Prophecy?
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Grudgeal

Re: Order of the stick

Postby Grudgeal » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:16 pm

Draxom wrote:So I have been looking for a while and i can't find it. Can anyone link to the pages that explain Durkon's Prophecy?

There are two prophecies about Durkon. The first is the Oracle's prophecy that Durkon will return home "posthumously" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html). As for the second, it's in the Origin of PCs print-only book. If you haven't read it, SPOILERS BELOW:

Durkon was banished from his homelands by the last high priest of Thor, under the guise of being a "cultural attache to the humans until further notice". It was prophesied by Odin that the next time Durkon returned to his home, he would bring great destruction to the Dwarves. Durkon is unaware of this prophecy, and since it seems he will be returning home posthumously as a vampire and poke around another gate, well...
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Draxom

Re: Order of the stick

Postby Draxom » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:24 pm

Grudgeal wrote:
Draxom wrote:So I have been looking for a while and i can't find it. Can anyone link to the pages that explain Durkon's Prophecy?

There are two prophecies about Durkon. The first is the Oracle's prophecy that Durkon will return home "posthumously" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html). As for the second, it's in the Origin of PCs print-only book. If you haven't read it, SPOILERS BELOW:

Durkon was banished from his homelands by the last high priest of Thor, under the guise of being a "cultural attache to the humans until further notice". It was prophesied by Odin that the next time Durkon returned to his home, he would bring great destruction to the Dwarves. Durkon is unaware of this prophecy, and since it seems he will be returning home posthumously as a vampire and poke around another gate, well...



Ahh, I see. Thanks for the clarification.
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Thomas

Re: Order of the stick

Postby Thomas » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:36 pm

Grudgeal wrote:Narratively it wouldn't make sense either. Xykon would have to be the one to force the confrontation since Tarquin is too aware of genre conventions not to know that butting into his son's story puts him in a precarious position (of course it isn't really his son's story: Xykon is Roy and Redcloak's nemesis, which makes Tarquin even *less* important in that area, but Tarquin isn't aware of that). If Tarquin were to fight him he'd probably lose, both in the case of rules and narratively speaking: The plot is too involved in Xykon and Redcloak for them to be anything other than Big Bad and having Tarquin take over at this stage would be a cop-out that wouldn't subvert expectations as break the story entirely.

Somehow I expect the current events in the comic to bring an end to the Order's travels in the Western Continent and with it Tarquin's importance to the storyline. Though it would not surprise me in the slightest if the Giant decided to kill off Tarquin too to bring an even *more* shocking conclusion to Elan's current character arc. I just don't expect Xykon to be the one to do it.

I think Tarquin is too important and far too powerful to leave unresolved. In story terms he's probably the most threatening of anyone and has been responsible for some of the biggest shakeups of party dynamics. I agree he might die here, but if he doesn't then I'd expect him to come into the plot in a big way. I can't really see him killing Xykon for the reasons you mentioned, but I think either he'll have a plan which he springs before Xykon's big role and Xykon kills him, or Xykon does his thing and when he's defeated Tarquin throws in a twist bigger plan. (If I could think of a good narrative arc I'd favour another rush for the finish line, but I can't figure out how Tarquin would do it and expect to win)

The only other things I can think of would be a)Elan and Tarquin have their final epic fight in the epilogue or b)Tarquin finds a clever narrative trick that allows him to leave peacefully in the epilogue but without making us feel like an evil dictator is still in control of a massive empire (maybe he could position himself as the 'here we go again' character)
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Grudgeal

Re: Order of the stick

Postby Grudgeal » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:09 pm

Welp, so much for that. Nale's not coming back; Word of Giant is that True Resurrection doesn't exist in the OotS-verse or is, in the very least, only possible through direct divine intervention (so not as a spell usable by mere mortals). That's the end of that recurring villain, eventually I figure we'll see how badly Tarquin miscalculated about the Order and Sabine.
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Akri

Re: Order of the stick

Postby Akri » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:28 pm

Oh, this is gonna get interesting...
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Nalyd
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Re: Order of the stick

Postby Nalyd » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:29 pm

Good. I've always seen the Linear Guild as a holdover from the days when OotS was about one-off gags rather than plot. Not only did Elan outgrow him, but the entire comic did, long ago.
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swenson
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Re: Order of the stick

Postby swenson » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:44 pm

You know, I had completely forgotten about Sabine until right this moment... who wants to bet she arrives and joins up against Tarquin?
rrgg

Re: Order of the stick

Postby rrgg » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:33 pm

Sorry, too lazy to use spoiler tags.

Is it just me or has oots stopped being about DnD a long time ago and moved to the exploration of stories and tropes?

The one thing I still can't get over is Tarquin's army. He shows up with this giant army and explains that he merely brought it along to increase dramatic tension and to help deliver ominous, plot-critical reveals, suggesting that it is just a big red herring. But is that really the case? Or is there a double-bluff going on, meaning that Tarquin's army still very much a loaded and cocked Chekhov's gun? And if so does Tarquin know this?

Or maybe the big twist is that it really is mearly a logical, defensive measure on Tarquin's part meant to preemptively neuter the OotS's and outside forces' ability to respond as he secured the gate's remains and killed Nale.
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swenson
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Re: Order of the stick

Postby swenson » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:06 pm

That's kind of Tarquin's thing, having multiple plans that neatly fall into one another. I'm sure the giant army is not just there to make things dramatic, but rather in case things go wrong and it turns out he really DOES need a giant army.
rrgg

Re: Order of the stick

Postby rrgg » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:36 pm

That's the thing though. The fictional trope would be "He brought an army, it must be here to fight something!"

However the realistic conclusion to this scenario should probably be "Darn, he brought an army! Guess we'll just have to play it cool and leave peacefully without any bloodshed, because if there was any fighting right now we would certainly lose horribly."
Traiden
Location: Traveling

Re: Order of the stick

Postby Traiden » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:13 am

A show of force is a way to gain a bonus to intimidate and diplomacy. Sort of like a shotgun, really.
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Thomas

Re: Order of the stick

Postby Thomas » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:17 am

I wasn't expecting that. I really don't know whats going to happen now. I'm pretty sure they can't die but I don't know how they could survive either

I'm not sure whats going to happen with Elan's Dad either, I was convinced they were going to have to deal with him, but the more he says it will happen after the gate and the more he does things like this, the less likely that seems. But he's always way too big of a threat to finish now. Something will have to motivate him to grab the last gate?
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Order of the stick

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:18 am

Thomas wrote:I wasn't expecting that. I really don't know whats going to happen now. I'm pretty sure they can't die but I don't know how they could survive either


Im pretty sure people have said that about both roy and durkon already,and yet here we are.Though we do know that durkula has to go back to his homeland first.But belkar might get snuffed here.

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