Anime might be cool

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4th Dimension

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby 4th Dimension » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:39 am

Okay Vivid: Strike I got to give it to you that was well done. You actually managed to surprise me and even bring back some of the magic. Let's now see what you do with that.
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Kelerak

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Kelerak » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:13 pm

Finished up the first season of Stardust Crusaders, enjoyed it. Maybe not as much as Battle Tendency due to Joseph no longer being the clown that he was, but still having fun nonetheless.

Oddly enough, the biggest question I have is the most meaningless, and more of a joke than anything. Why does an orangutan have a Stand? Why is he so smart? Why is his Stand a boat?!

Anyways, on to season 2.
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SpammyV
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Re: Anime might be cool

Postby SpammyV » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:01 am

Okay it's been a while but I'm back on the Mobile Suit Gundam train.

Look, I am well and truly aware that almost every anime is made on a budget. Especially older anime. Especially older anime made for TV. Especially older mecha anime made for TV where they had their sponsors breathing down their neck about merchandise sales. I get it, sometimes they literally did not have the money for animation. So when I giggle uncontrollably at stuff like this, I'm not trying to slight the animators. But just look at his head.

And I'm starting to think now that perhaps among the many things that Gundam SEEDF copied from Mobile Suit Gundam was the nature of actually picking up the plot and getting good in the last third or so.

EDIT:
Image
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The Rocketeer

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby The Rocketeer » Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:42 am

SpammyV wrote:I'm back on the Mobile Suit Gundam train.
"Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that, a Newtype did it."
"I see alright, yes, but in episode-"
"Newtype!"

Yeah, I tried to warn you just how "budget" MSG was, especially with the reused footage. I mean, I understand that Amuro needs practice with the G-Parts, but you're not fooling anybody reusing that same transformation sequence, in every mid-series episode, as many times as you can get away with! Did you see the Doan's Island episode, or did your source omit that dud?

The return to space is both when things tend to rise to their best on the large scale, and for individual episodes to seem rushed over, as if they waited so long to deliver on the stuff they most wanted to do with Gundam that they couldn't fit the specific beats in the time they had remaining. MSG's skill at building up the moment to moment threats against the White Base as legitimate concerns really helped sell the tension and make the show interesting emotionally and narratively, as they actually have to respond with some sort of skill, ingenuity, and urgency. With some of the episodes around where you are now, they... don't.

But when they move past that the first half of the series' return to space and into the real final push against Zeon, everything takes a serious turn for the awesome.
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SpammyV
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Re: Anime might be cool

Postby SpammyV » Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:54 am

Nah man, cheap old anime doesn't really pahse me. Voltes V takes like two minutes to combine every episode and I still ended up loving it and wanting them to remake it without the episodic stuff getting in the way. And when I say that Dancouga has single-digit animation frames in places, I do mean actual single digits such that you don't even need to be looking for it to realize. Not to mention how Dancouga barely moves. For how budget it gets in places any given Gundam fight is still way more movement filled than most of what Dancouga does when it combines.

The real question for me is whether the show is quality enough even with the cheap animation. Voltes and Gundam yes. Dancouga yes, if at least as a curiosity. I think that cheap bad animation can harm a show, but at least for me personally, I've not seen animation so cheap that it absolutely kills a show. If the cheap animation on a show is really killing me then the show already has problems. See: Super Robot Wars OG: Divine Wars where the show can't muster any energy at all.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby The Rocketeer » Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:19 am

Also ameliorated by the knowledge, in hindsight, that Mobile Suit Gundam's legacy would comprise a lot of stunning work.
Ninety-Three

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Ninety-Three » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:27 pm

I enjoyed all of Death Parade, and I'm still not sure if it's actually good. What it is is gorgeous. I normally watch shows on my second screen while playing a game and Death Parade made me turn off the game to give it my full attention. I have a hard time putting my finger on what exactly Death Parade is doing to make this happen, but I really like looking at it, and this is the only show to ever get that reaction from me. The art style itself is nothing special, I think there's something about the colour palette that appeals to me.

And now I'm faced with the challenge of figuring out how anime is produced so that I can track down whoever was responsible for Death Parade being so nice to look at, and watch all their other work. It was really pretty.
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Retsam

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Retsam » Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:35 am

You know how this thread has a nearly annual tradition of starting a big debate about Code Geass? Well, Good News Everyone: Code Geass Season 3 was just announced.

Even as someone who loves the original show (it's in my top 5); it's the definition of a show that doesn't need a sequel: the original show had a phenomenal ending, and didn't really leave too many loose threads. Still, I'm excited, despite my better judgement.
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SpammyV
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Re: Anime might be cool

Postby SpammyV » Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:46 am

Image

Humanity was horrified by its own actions.
Ninety-Three

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Ninety-Three » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:12 am

I guess this arguably belongs in the movies thread as well, but it's anime, so deal with it. After I told a friend that I hadn't watched any Miyazaki movies, she convinced me to watch Castle in the Sky with her. I came away thinking it was not very good, and she said it wasn't as good as she remembered. The very pastel look of a lot of the art stills didn't really do it for me, and I understand that "It's real pretty" is supposed to be a big part of the appeal of Miyazaki films, but I had some problems with the narrative as well. Characters read from the script a lot, and often in ways that aren't really necessary, which only makes it more aggravating that the writer did it (like the pirate lady at the end knowing the girl's pigtails got shot off). My bigger problem is that the tone of the movie is not terribly consistent. In the first half it's a very light-hearted adventure with moments of Saturday morning cartoon wackiness, but just as I was saying to myself "You know, I didn't expect it to be this cartoony, but I'm getting into it", the wacky stuff dried up and we moved into the second half where the tone became more "generic adventure". The Iron Giant scene feels weirdly dark and out-of-place in the movie, and what the hell was up with the bit where a serpent made of lightning gives the kid a spirit vision to guide him through the storm?

I can't tell if I didn't enjoy it because I'm just an uncultured slob, or because the movie's main appeal is its animation which was incredible thirty years ago but hasn't aged perfectly. Or did we pick one of the weaker Miyazaki movies?
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Scerro

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Scerro » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:29 am

Retsam wrote:You know how this thread has a nearly annual tradition of starting a big debate about Code Geass? Well, Good News Everyone: Code Geass Season 3 was just announced.

Even as someone who loves the original show (it's in my top 5); it's the definition of a show that doesn't need a sequel: the original show had a phenomenal ending, and didn't really leave too many loose threads. Still, I'm excited, despite my better judgement.


Is it sequel as in sequentially after the final episode of season 2? I know they've made a mess of derivative shows with alternate universes and characters with their own Geasses.
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Retsam

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Retsam » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:49 am

Scerro wrote:
Retsam wrote:You know how this thread has a nearly annual tradition of starting a big debate about Code Geass? Well, Good News Everyone: Code Geass Season 3 was just announced.

Even as someone who loves the original show (it's in my top 5); it's the definition of a show that doesn't need a sequel: the original show had a phenomenal ending, and didn't really leave too many loose threads. Still, I'm excited, despite my better judgement.


Is it sequel as in sequentially after the final episode of season 2? I know they've made a mess of derivative shows with alternate universes and characters with their own Geasses.



Yeah, it's definitely a sequel: it's it's titled "Code Geass: Lelouch of the Resurrection". Other than that, not a ton is known.

There have been a bunch of spin-off manga (Suzaku of the Counterattack, Nightmare of Nunally, Renya of Darkness, Oz the Reflection) but the only anime spin-off of Code Geass (to my knowledge) is Akito the Exiled, which is a set of five OVAs that is set in Europe during the same time as Code Geass.

I really want to watch Akito, but I keep hoping they'll actually properly release it outside of Japan so I don't have to sail the seas. (Also that they'll dub it, but lets be realistic here)
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Retsam

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Retsam » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:46 pm

Finished the third main arc (out of four, I assume, based on the remaining number of episodes) of Hyouka. So far, it's the weakest, (at least, given my tastes): unlike previously, individual episodes didn't have their own mysteries that tied into the larger arc mystery, and the actual mystery of the arc was fairly unsatisfying, involving way too many logical leaps for the viewer to actually figure out. (And they're all just dumped out at the end in one conversation, instead of even doling them out little by little)

And, with the mystery aspect being so weak in this arc, it leaves the show as basically just a Slice-of-Life/Romance-lite show. And, maybe it's phenomenal Slice-of-Life/Romance-lite, I really couldn't tell you because that genre just isn't my particular flavor of ice cream.
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SpammyV
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Re: Anime might be cool

Postby SpammyV » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:14 am

I've made it all the way through the original Mobile Suit Gundam series. It shows its age in some of the storytelling and only the highest quality animation the 70s could offer. But as hard as it can be to watch because of age I think the stuff that people liked about it then still holds up now. That being, the characters. At least for me, I think the characters were what I got in to the most. And maybe it's just because Mobile Suit Gundam is more historically significant and thus I'm soft on it, but a lot of their angst and trials were still far more tolerable than, say, the pseudo-remake that is Gundam SEEDF. There's also Char and his incredibly soothing voice too.

I stand by my opinion being that the show picks up when they return to space, just like in SEEDF. If things do get somewhat unfocused and a little rushed, they also keep moving, and the bigger and more dramatic revelations start to hit rapidly.

I do still plan to continue watching my way through the Universal Century, and reputable sources have told me what OVAs I should watch before I start Zeta. But before I start Zeta, I want to go through and finish another Tomino show, Xabungle. Xabungle is hilarious and very self aware and I took a break halfway through and didn't ever get back to it.

And also, I've been watching someone stream through the G Generation Genesis video game, which is exclusively UC Gundam. All the series and the OVAs. It's kind of funny to see the OVAs like Igloo that take the "Zeon = Nazi Germany" idea way too literally and suddenly everyone's in SS uniforms with 40s-looking ships and headsets. And the people taking it too literally is even funnier when they're the writers who are really Zeon apologists. I love to stand in front of a picture of a colony drop and talk about Zeon's completely noble ideas.
Steve C

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Steve C » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:27 pm

Spammy I just noticed that big doohickey appeared to have landed on Sidney, Canada in that gif above.
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John

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby John » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:42 pm

Mobile Suit Gundam is the best Gundam series for one simple reason, and that reason is Char's helmet. I love that thing, mostly because I can't figure out whether or not it's seriously meant to conceal his identity. If it is meant to conceal his identity, then why doesn't anybody seem to care that he wears a helmet all the time? Has he been wearing it for his entire military career? Did he go through basic training and mobile suit pilot school with that thing on? Hasn't he ever had a superior officer who was a little alarmed that one of his men was a helmet-loving weirdo? And if it isn't meant to conceal his identity--if everyone knows what he looks like and nobody cares--then Char really is just some helmet-loving weirdo. Those ace pilots, man, they're all so eccentric.
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Retsam

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Retsam » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:08 pm

What about "Gundam: The Origin" as an alternative to watching the original Mobile Suit Gundam? I haven't seen either, but my understanding is that G:TO is a fairly faithful retelling of the original story; but in a modern style.

I've heard the original MSG is good, but I don't have a ton of patience for older shows, unfortunately, so I've been considering GTO.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby The Rocketeer » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:23 pm

John wrote:I love that thing, mostly because I can't figure out whether or not it's seriously meant to conceal his identity.
It isn't, actually. Char does have a secret identity, but knowing his face wouldn't actually reveal it to anyone. Kycilia Zabi does eventually figure out his identity, but not because she managed to see his face; she just figured it out because of how sloppily he'd been perpetrating his vendetta against her dynasty. It's more symbolic of taking on an artificial identity than a means of actually providing for that new identity.

Char's face is shown in either the first or second episode of the series, which I liked. His appearance wasn't intended to be a secret to the audience, either; he's just some blonde dude underneath. It also coincides with the (partial) revelation of his real identity as Sayla's brother. That isn't supposed to be a secret from the audience, either, since they want to leverage that knowledge for drama. The significance of their connection to the backstory and the implications of that backstory to their character comes later, but it's enough to start out on, and they don't cheap out on letting it on once it becomes relevant to his actions, around when Garma is introduced at the latest.

A Zeon soldier speculates later that he has severe facial burns that his helmet is hiding, but this is just some in-universe myth-making, which I thought was a nice touch. He actually explains later on why he does this stuff: yes, it's just because it looks cool, and because he can get away with it. I think it's when he's having his custom Gelgoog prepared before his duel with Amuro in the Texas colony: he fights with the assumption that he's going to win all his battles, so he doesn't wear a normal suit, which would otherwise protect his life during a loss. It's his unshakeable faith in his skills as an ace pilot that leads him to wear a unique uniform and fly unique mobile suits (later retconned as a paintjob for a subset of mobile suit variants), and that same record of success that excuses his behavior to his superiors. This becomes relevant a little later, when he begins wearing a normal suit during his final battles, not only to put his lover Lalah's mind at ease, but because his battles with Amuro have him feeling genuinely outmatched and facing the distinct possibility of his death.

Despite the obvious WWII Germany overtones, I think his general attitude is supposed to be more evocative of WWI Germany; the influence of nobility certainly wasn't absent from Germany's military during WWII (those academy-trained bluebloods with their stylish dueling scars), but Char himself, as the Red Comet, is a pretty direct allusion to the Red Baron, who himself was able to demand quite a bit of freedom with his planes due to his position and his flying record. That, and I think Degwin and Gihren broadly represent WWI Germany under the Kaiser versus WWII Germany under the Führer, with Degwin explicitly comparing his son to Hitler— a comparison lost on Gihren, who, misunderstanding, elects to receive it as a compliment.

SpammyV wrote:...reputable sources have told me what OVAs I should watch before I start Zeta.
So are you watching them in UC-chronological order, rather than the order they were made in? I'd strongly recommend the latter, but I guess I can't twist your arm about it.

SpammyV wrote:And the people taking it too literally is even funnier when they're the writers who are really Zeon apologists. I love to stand in front of a picture of a colony drop and talk about Zeon's completely noble ideas.
Yes, even as early as Zeta, I think some portion of the series' writing gets a bit too hung up on demonstrating "Feddies are bastards, too," although in Zeta they very wisely created the Titans sub-group and established the AEUG and Karaba to provide a broad space for nuance within the very broad purview of the Federation. The Zeon apologism didn't seem to have crept in yet. The idea that only a minority of Zeon's population and military were genuinely malevolent was a good and necessary idea from the very start, but they tended not to lose sight of the idea that Zeon, overall, was a dictatorial junta whose ends and means alike, as often as not, consisted of genocide, terror, and the literal destruction of Earth.

The series would certainly lose something important if it portrayed the Federation as infallible and morally white, but at the end of the day, the audience needs a reason to want the heroes to earn their survival and win the war, and you can't have that unless someone emerges as "the good guys," more or less. As I've argued before, Gundam's willingness to portray disaster and tragedy carries meaning because the series isn't nihilistic; at its heart, Gundam is about humanity's struggle to move beyond Earth, literally and figuratively, and is built to work toward and earn humanity's eventual success, not merely to wallow in mankind's inadequacy.

The bleakness and hardship lend gravity and worth to that optimistic goal. But as a commercial enterprise, Gundam would cease to exist if the justification for perpetual war went away. The creators have a vested interest in humanity's failure, so to speak, and when the creators lose sight of Gundam's idealistic founding principles, it descends into nihilism. And when the series descends to nihilsm, watching it for the sake of spectacle alone becomes too unfulfilling and macabre for my tastes.

Which is why I approve of bringing the UC— and all individual timelines, in their courses— to an end, once and for all, providing narrative and thematic closure. It also lets the creators build different continuities around different ideas and principles, rather than muddying a single continuity with cross-wired tones and goals. But I know what to expect from Bandai.

Also, I think it's cool how Char's helmet resembles and fits with Zeon's Wehrmacht helmet design, but is shaped more like a kabuto, with the maedate adornment on the front.
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4th Dimension

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby 4th Dimension » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:53 pm

Vivid Strike continues to disappoint by being close but not close enough to the mark. The antagonist's background of suffering bullying and that plus family tragedy breaking her mind is really interesting. It also kind of subverts the tropes of the franchise where being adopted inevitably proves to be the best thing etc. But then they try to do a story similar to the one in Season 1 (getting the woobie/cold girl to open up by fighting her) through the viehicle of a martial arts tournament. But this can not work since it absolutelly eliminates any possibility of the MC and the antagonist interacting and exchanging ideas (and in true Nanoha fashion blows) throughout the season untill the MC is finally strong enough and has an argument strong enough to break down the sad reality that had them trapped*. On top of it all the show is not helped by the fact that they tried to weld it to the Vivid which further limited/sidelined Fuka (supposed main char). On the other hand we know these characters and some of their antics, when rarely they gat the chance, are fun.

So what we had instead was couple (like 4) episodes to set up the problem and give a VERY brief intro to the problem from where we moved to like half a season of episodes that pretty much told the story form the PoV of Rinne, the antagonist. The problem here was that, while her backstory as I said is interesting, they also made her TOO cold emotionally and it did not help at all that her coach drilled into her the stupid Darwinist idea of how winning is the only thing that matters and that loosers are beneath her. That is on top of the fact that they made her too much of a mary sue good at everything during her intro for me to like her. With this "winning" outward personality it is kind of hard to like her.

On top of it all they drop the flashy and interesting combat from the previous seasons and boil everything down to fistfights. Which is kind of a letdown when compared to the previous ones. Furthermore while the apparent energy is lower they for some god forsaken reason decide to ditch the whole "it's possible to set your magical attacks to nonlethal" AND forget about the system that protected the contestants from injury while simulating the pain and the aftereffects, therefore allowing for young competitors (they are all <15 year old in Strke) to experience real combat without lasting physical consequences. This meant that now any attack that hit did ACTUAL damage, and when you add into it the fact that Rinne's fightstyle can be boiled down to tank everything and then BREAK the oponent through pure brute strength, all of Rinne's oponents that we saw ended up in hospital. Hell we are treated to a pretty graphic display of one of characters's from Vivid ribs desintegrating as a result of one of the Rinne's attacks. This has not helped with making her more endearing at all.

In the end Rinne she does get defeated by Vivio which is good since she did need some time in the limelight to show that she still has it since her performance in Vivid was not great.

So now is the episode 9-10 and only NOW the MC and the antagonist are given the opportunity to exchange ideas (meaning fight) and are given the opportunity to cut loose in a setting outside of the ring with actual protection on (would have been nice to have that during an actual legal tournament that involved under 15 competitors now wouldn't it). But the episode that dealt with the set up of the fight did not work for me and the fight itself is not really that interesting. It's a whole lot of I throw you through a window, now I punt you through a pillar etc. On the other hand they are talking finally, but they seem to be talking past each other a bit and the key of the Rinne's issues (like her claiming she is responsible for her grandfather's death whihc is under no circumstance true).

I'll watch it to the end since it's part of the franchise and I'll consume anyhting Nanoha related, but this makes Vivid more entertaining and less anger inducing.

Although I do wonder how much of my dislike was caused by the fact that I did not watch this thing in one sitting but had time to brood and nitpick every single episode for a week.
I wonder if I would have been a lot less kind to StrikerS, which I did like while admitting it had LOADS of problems. If I had a week between episodes to nitpick with fellow fans every single thing they did wrong until our dislike got out of hand and ruined our enjoyment.

* The basic setup to all premises in Nanoha is have a REALLY shitty and dark situation with a lot of potential for angst on the side of antagonists who feel they simply have to do what they are doing, and then unleash Nanoha in all her White Devilsih pink glory to blast away enough of the situation and get the antagonist to stop and to open up the problem space so a more satisfying solution can be found.
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John

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby John » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:18 pm

The Rocketeer wrote:Char's face is shown in either the first or second episode of the series . . .

You know, I'm not sure if I've seen that episode or not. I watched a fair chunk of Mobile Suit Gundam on Cartoon Network once upon a time, but I don't remember if I caught the very earliest episodes. Actually, I don't actually remember why I stopped watching either. It may have been because I decided to cancel my cable and get Netflix instead.

I think his general attitude is supposed to be more evocative of WWI Germany; the influence of nobility certainly wasn't absent from Germany's military during WWII (those academy-trained bluebloods with their stylish dueling scars), but Char himself, as the Red Comet, is a pretty direct allusion to the Red Baron . . .

Oh, sure. The Red Baron allusion is obvious, and Char does have a certain eccentric-aristocrat sort of flair. What's funny is that the helmet of Char's most notable rip-off, Zechs Merquise, never struck me as odd. That may have been because I knew he was a Char rip-off going in and so never thought to question it. Or it may have been because the the people Zechs works for are actual, factual aristocrats--as is Zechs--and everyone knows how weird those guys are. Zechs' uniform makes it look more like he's about to march off to fight at Waterloo than he is to climb in to a mobile suit. Compared to that the helmet doesn't seem like such a big deal.

Also, I think it's cool how Char's helmet resembles and fits with Zeon's Wehrmacht helmet design, but is shaped more like a kabuto, with the maedate adornment on the front.

Whereas I think it's cool how much his name resembles Charles Aznavour, whom I know pretty much exclusively from his guest appearance on the Muppet Show in 1977. See, for example, this.
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SpammyV
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Re: Anime might be cool

Postby SpammyV » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:36 pm

Yeah Char's helmet does look like a repainted/slightly modified helmet we see other Zeon figures wear. I think Kycilia's is nearly identical, save for the eye-covering shade. Oh and he's even wearing a mask when he's in private with his girlfriend which is either insanely paranoid or incredibly dedicated.

From what I've seen of the MS Igloo plot that shows up in the form of G Generation Genesis stages, that is so incredibly Zeon Apologist it just cracks me up. It's also the one I'm talking about when I talk about writers taking the Zeon = Nazi Germany thing way too literally. It's all about the people testing Zeon's stupid superweapons, which are all incredibly obviously based on Nazi stupid superweapons. And pretty much all the characters are Good Noble Zeon Soldiers because not all Zeons are bad, which reaches its peak when the Good Brave Noble Zeon Youth soldier in a modified construction pod is fighting a Federation student soldier and our Good Zeon Boy convinces the Federation boy to surrender and not throw his life away... and then they both get shot down by a Federation ship captain.

My plan is for the most part to watch things in order of release, there's just the two OVAs (War in the Pocket and Stardust Memories) that I plan on watching before Zeta.

Also for the purposes of watching I'm basically counting After War Gundam X and Turn A as UC shows. They're UC enough. Basically. Gundam X is about Newtypes and it's a post-apocalyptic Earth after it got colony-dropped by fake Zeon into dust. And Turn A was supposed to be the meta finale to every Gundam continuity but that's gotten a little too ludicrous, especially after Tomino said that Reconguista in G is supposed to take place after Turn A. Most people accept it as the finale to the UC. Super Robot Wars games usually allow pilots to switch mechs as long as they're in the same series, and they almost always let UC and Turn A characters pilot each other's mechs. So Bandai's allowed to say they're the same continuity.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby The Rocketeer » Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:19 am

John wrote:Whereas I think it's cool how much his name resembles Charles Aznavour...
Not a coincidence; Char was named for the singer. In fact, I'm pretty sure that after Char nearly gets shitcanned and is shown watching Garma's funeral in a bar, he's wearing that exact same suit Aznavour is wearing in that clip you linked, plus some huge aviator sunglasses, because, yes, Char really is just like that all the time.

SpammyV wrote:Yeah Char's helmet does look like a repainted/slightly modified helmet we see other Zeon figures wear. I think Kycilia's is nearly identical, save for the eye-covering shade.
Actually, that's an interesting point. Now I'm wondering if Kycilia's helmet and facemask resemble Char's own ridiculous couture as a way to symbolically link them— to link their methods and personalities. Char is a shady figure working secretly against the Zabis, but Kycilia isn't necessarily the biggest friend to her own family, either. During the Odessa arc on Earth, it's made clear that M'quve's operations are designed to increase Kycilia's personal wealth and power without the knowledge of the rest of the dynasty. After Char is (rightfully) blamed for Garma's death, Dozle Zabi grounds him, but Kycilia, after confronting Char about his identity and his vendetta, brings him into her fold anyway, recognizing his potential to affect the war and expand her position within the Zabi family. Although it's revenge for Gihren's own murder of their father Degwin, Kycilia does murder Gihren herself, making her the last surviving Zabi (future plot-hook Mineva not included), and would have made her the matriarch of Zeon if she had succeeded in her plan to evacuate and regroup Zeon's military at Side 3... before Char finished her off, anyway.

SpammyV wrote:It's all about the people testing Zeon's stupid superweapons, which are all incredibly obviously based on Nazi stupid superweapons.
I do love the fact that MSG's superweapons were all the results of physics and the economy of scale already established by the premise, like Operation British, the Solar System, and the colony laser. Stardust Memory both carries on and lets down that tradition, with a plot centering on another clever use of orbital physics to enact an operation, and introducing the kind of superweapons I can't stand in the UC: ever more overpowered mobile suits with ever more overpowered arsenals. At least Zeta had the decency to keep most of its mobile suit advancement centered on upgrades like 360-degree visuals in the cockpit, technology to accommodate the budding Newtype phenomenon, and suits at least described as suited to the evolving role of mobile suits in warfare, which was still very much in development in UC0087. Even if the whole "transforming mobile suit" paradigm was transparently intended to help sell models, just as MSG's "G-Parts" must have been.

SpammyV wrote:[Describing cloyingly maudlin Zeon apologism]
Gives me hope that you'd hate 08th MS Team with at least some of my passion. The arc could be captured by the trailer for a wacky rom-com: "He's a Federation rookie that doesn't play by the rules! She's a no-nonsense Zeon elite! This summer, can they *record scratch* find true love?!"
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SpammyV
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Re: Anime might be cool

Postby SpammyV » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:41 am

Oh wait I think I remember that one. Is that the one with the guy who saw the people getting gassed for Operation British and was all "I'm gonna kill every Zeon son of a bitch on earth" until he met the hot lady? But I can end up liking shows for the specific toneexperience that show is trying to provide. I mean, Mobile Suit Gundam and G Gundam both get to exist in my heart even as G Gundam drops almost all of the stuff that makes the UC what it is in order to cram in more wuxia tropes and Domon shouting.

But speaking of things that aren't good, is it the translation here, or is Stardust Memories just extraordinarily clunkily written?

"Don't you get tired of seeing the ocean?" "No, because as you know I am from space."

Our protagonist boy just blindsiding the engineer lady and throwing Gundam specs at her out of nowhere and then going "But we don't see any of those upgrades in the GM?"

And then the base gets attacked and engineer lady is watching the combat in horror and then someone goes, "Is this your first battle? Right, you aren't a soldier."

But uh... the robots are animated well at least.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby The Rocketeer » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:22 am

I have no idea what the translation is for you; most English dubs from that era hurt my ears with their cacaphonous sadism, so I stick to subtitles. And the subs I have for Stardust Memory seemed excellent, to me.

I checked that conversation between Nina and Cpt. Synapse on the Albion bridge, so you can compare it to your own version:

=====================================================================================================================================================================================
[Nina, watching the ocean from the bridge of the Albion, turns to see Capt. Synapse coming on deck.]
Synapse, to Navigator Paserov: Mr. Paserov. All quiet?
[Paserov nods without looking up from a technical manual. Synapse crosses to Nina.]
Nina, to the Captain: Excuse me for coming up here without permission, Captain Synapse.
Synapse: It's no bother, Miss Purpleton. But there's been nothing but ocean since we left Jaburo. Aren't you bored?
Nina, excited: Not at all. It may be the same ocean, but the waves' movement and color changes from place to place.
Synapse, comprehending: Oh, of course. This is your first time on Earth, isn't it?
Nina: Yes. [Nina turns to see the mainland on the horizon.] We'll be over Australia soon, won't we?
Paserov, not looking up: We already are.
[Nina does not understand.]
Synapse, brow lowered: We're already crossing over Sydney. The sea we're over now is where the city used to be: the scar of Zeon's Operation British.
Nina, shocked, steps forward and presses against the glass: Th-this is where the colony fell?! [In the Japanese, the first word of the sentence, which she stammers, is "Colony."]
Synapse, over scenes of the disaster: A crater 500 kilometers wide. The largest man-made hole in history, created by an explosive force equal to 60,000 Megatons. [Dutch angle of bridge crew] They may call it the price of war, but it's too high a price to pay.
=====================================================================================================================================================================================

Unfortunately for me, it's the subtitles for Zeta that don't seem to be quite right. It's that hard to describe problem that translations get sometimes, where each line, individually, seems translated sensibly and accurately, but don't add up sensibly when taken together, or like two people talking are having two different conversations. Which sounds like what you're getting from your translation of Stardust.

If you are having problems with your version, I'd recommend rectifying that if you can. As much as I like Stardust— more than most, I gather— its writing has enough problems on its own that it really doesn't need the extra layer of obfuscation.
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SpammyV
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Re: Anime might be cool

Postby SpammyV » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:22 am

Yeah that's the one. It seemed like a very "As you know" way to explain that Nina's from space. Although "We already are" was a cool way both to show a new, horrifying angle of the colony drop.

And fuck I hate Monsha. I hate that guy so much. I hate him even more because he's a dead ringer for one of the coolest pilots in Super Robot Wars Original Generation.

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