Anime might be cool

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John

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby John » Fri May 05, 2017 12:58 am

I tease, but I actually do enjoy the long Gundam posts.
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SpammyV
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Re: Anime might be cool

Postby SpammyV » Fri May 05, 2017 3:21 am

I call the series Gundam SEEDF because in the show SEED stands for Super Evolutionary Element Destined factor. Because the series is full of silly acronyms including GUNDAM(General Purpose Utility Non-Discontinuity Augmentation Maneuvering Weapon System) itself. And because I have so little respect for Gundam SEED I'm going to fix their acronym name to its proper silliness, hence: Gundam SEEDF where the protagonists possess the SEEDF factor and can enter SEEDF Mode.
Ninety-Three

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Ninety-Three » Sat May 06, 2017 3:48 am

God appears before an evil man and rages at the man for having no faith. The man in turn is rages at God for expecting people to have faith absent need or evidence. God sets the man a trial to force him to have faith. The man refuses to worship, out of a stubborn hatred for the God he feels has wronged him.

Then the writer mostly forgets about this dynamic and makes nine straight episodes of generic "World War 1 but with gun-wizards" anime.

So Saga of Tanya the Evil is a disappointment. The generic war anime is okay, I guess, but I can't help the feeling that I've been bait-and-switched on something with a lot more potential.
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SpammyV
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Re: Anime might be cool

Postby SpammyV » Sun May 07, 2017 4:15 pm

After War Gundam X is starting off pretty good. It's basically the What If? issue of the Universal Century.

Just like the Universal Century, there was a war between the Earth Federation and some Spacenoid Revolutionaries. But where Zeon dropped one colony at a time, these revolutionaries lined up dozens of colonies and told the Earth Federation to unconditionally surrender or they'd drop colonies everywhere on the planet at once. And a fifteen year old kid in a special mobile suit designed to take advantage of his Newtype powers pulled the trigger and called their bluff. They went through with the drop.

The Gundam X itself is kind of neat for how its design tries to resolve the conflict between wanting the hero robot to be special and have some special asskicking power, but also needing the audience to not lose interest because of the protagonist's "I win" button. The GX's cannon can annihilate anything, because it's getting beamed power from a station on the moon, resulting in an insanely powerful beam. If the moon is out. If the moon isn't out it's just a good mobile suit. Actually even if the moon is out the tracking laser from the charging station needs to find the GX and the GX still has to get charge to fire.

Garrod is an interesting departure from Amuro, Kamille, and Judau. He's spent years on his own finding/stealing mobile suits and selling them off, so rather than his difficulty integrating with the crew being due to not being adjusted to military life, Garrod is just a 15 year old kid who, for however cool he tries to act, isn't actually used to trusting people. He wants to fit in, so he takes every negative to heart far more than most people on the Freeden realize, and spends several episodes torn between staying and running away out of fear, trying to convince himself he's doing the right thing for everyone. Also, Garrod isn't a Newtype. The role of Newtype Teenager is played by Tifa, for whom they aren't really a blessing or a benefit. She has some sort of issue, being painfully shy and quiet, unwilling to open up to people, and unaware of how to fit in to social situations. She's also getting visions of the future constantly from her Newtype gift, except in this post-apocalyptic world there's nothing good to see. Plus if too many people die around her she can sense their fear and anger at the moment of death. Basically Gundam X is even less of a good place for Newtypes than normal.

Also speaking of the Freeden, the ship's captain, Jamil is also cool. Perhaps the biggest thing that makes Gundam X a What If? to the Universal Century is the fact that Jamil is basically Amuro. Teenage ace pilot, Newtype, hero to the Federation... and the one who caused the colony drop. With Jamil being around, Gundam X feels like a sequel to a show we only get to see in bits in pieces of his backstory, of this kid who destroyed the world. He's like Amuro forced to fill Bright's shoes while carrying enough trauma he can barely get near a mobile suit's cockpit or use his Newtype powers without intense pain but he's got Quattro's sunglasses.

So far Gundam X is good and interesting and feel vindicated that my assessment of it being basically a Universal Century show was right. The only non-UC show that is more UC is the one that actually was in the UC the entire time.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby The Rocketeer » Sun May 07, 2017 6:05 pm

The main feeling I always got from After War was...

...

Oh, wait, I actually haven't seen this one.

SpammyV wrote:The Gundam X itself is kind of neat for how its design tries to resolve the conflict between wanting the hero robot to be special and have some special asskicking power, but also needing the audience to not lose interest because of the protagonist's "I win" button.
I'm curious if they've ever had a mobile suit whose psycommu/biocomputer/whatever phlebotinum Newtype-compatible system basically scrambled the user's brain. I mean, from Zeta onward, Cyber-Newtypes were pretty much all major nutbars— some much more than others, granted— which I took as symbolic for the consequences of trying to forcibly advance people to the next stage of personal/spiritual development; there's an undercurrent in Zeta, and again in Char's Counterattack, that such attempts to force mankind's evolution necessarily end in disaster. In fact, I think this is Amuro's primary counterargument to Char in CCA and something he explicitly says in as many words.

It seems natural to me that the marvel of psycommu technology might cut both ways: they give you access to basically whatever godpowers the plot demands, but there's some sort of "feedback" that incrementally warps the otherwise-superhuman awareness and consciousness that Newtypes possess. Just as Cyber-Newtypes were, it seems like a natural consequence of taking what is essentially a spiritual, personal evolutionary step towards humankind's enlightenment and attempting to commoditize it as a mundane, technological tool for mankind's atavistic destructive ends. This always struck me as perverse. If they did attach a cost to the use of a higher consciousness meant to unify humankind as a means of continuing to destroy ourselves, then it should be the regression of that gift: losing the ability to distinguish friend from foe, erasing your sense of self, or just ending up giggling and sitting in your own shit like post-Zeta Kamille.
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SpammyV
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Re: Anime might be cool

Postby SpammyV » Sun May 07, 2017 6:34 pm

There is one suit that was build specifically to be piloted by a Newtype or Cyber-Newtype and destroy Newtype suits like the Qubeley by going into overdrive, allowing it to use the pilot's Newtype sense and respond to their mental commands, while also being able to shut down or even take control of Bits and Funnels. It can only do this for five minutes because of the strain it puts onto the pilot's mind.

That's basically one of the cool sounding bits of Gundam Unicorn and why the show's on my list to watch, someone went "Dang suits like the Qubeley and Psycho Gundam that use Newtypes controlling funnels to have one suit project extreme amounts of force are a huge factor now. Let's make a suit designed to shut them down."
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The Rocketeer

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby The Rocketeer » Sun May 07, 2017 6:40 pm

SpammyV wrote:There is one suit that was build specifically to be piloted by a Newtype or Cyber-Newtype and destroy Newtype suits like the Qubeley by going into overdrive, allowing it to use the pilot's Newtype sense and respond to their mental commands, while also being able to shut down or even take control of Bits and Funnels. It can only do this for five minutes because of the strain it puts onto the pilot's mind.

That's basically one of the cool sounding bits of Gundam Unicorn and why the show's on my list to watch, someone went "Dang suits like the Qubeley and Psycho Gundam that use Newtypes controlling funnels to have one suit project extreme amounts of force are a huge factor now. Let's make a suit designed to shut them down."
So of all things, jamming is the bridge too far for psycommu? Well, that makes a kind of sense; seems like it would essentially boil down to a psychic struggle for dominance, vaguely abstracted by the machine layer. It should drive both pilots nuts, really, since the usurper is basically reaching into their opponent's mental web and seizing or cutting their mental puppet-strings.
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SpammyV
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Re: Anime might be cool

Postby SpammyV » Sun May 07, 2017 7:19 pm

No, it's more that the suit is trying to plug as directly into the pilot's mind as it can, and also ZZ established that it takes a lot in order to actually override someone's mental control on their bit/funnels. Not having seen Unicorn yet I'm not sure whether it's based off of the pilot's will or if it's the NT-D system basically trying to tap into the pilot's Newtype brain and use them to take control of bits/funnels.
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4th Dimension

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby 4th Dimension » Mon May 08, 2017 6:34 am

I know this is offtoppic since Gundamu is not involved, but I have started watching Toaru Kagaku no Railgun, and I have to say I quite like it. The characters are entertaining and fun, allthough the main ones are more entertaining than their muggle, almost muggle friends. My oppinion of the show has also improved once I was told that Keroko is not in fact Mikoto's sister, which made Keroko's obsessive stalkerish attempts to throw herself at her and get her to love her considerably less bad. Also I think Mikoto is the first anime charachter which has sensibly prepared to be anime character in a short skirt by wearing shorts below it. Because you just know the camera and a lot of characters will be trying real hard to get a peek. Also I like the idea of using electromagnetism control to have the character be able to fire railgun shots by accelerating simple coins, and that the heroine, the titular Railgun, tends to be the one picking the fight rather than going "Oh woe is me, if only I didn't have these powers!!!"
Since it's supposed to be part of a larger franchise that was started by Certain Magical Index, after starting Railgun, I went and watched that. I have to say after watching something like 9-10 episodes of Index, I BY FAR prefer Railgun to it. In Index my eyes are firmly stuck to eye roll setting considering how edgy and "cool" it tries to be with it's magic/religion things. Also things aren't that well plotted IMO and can even loose me what the fuck are we trying to do now.
So I think I'll be dropping Index, and will simply go with Railgun.
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4th Dimension

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby 4th Dimension » Tue May 09, 2017 6:06 am

Okay, I finished the Railgun S1. I still quite like it, the characters and such, although I do think it has issues. One of those is that there are one too many of the filler/breather episodes when nothing much happens, so the pacing is off. One gets the sense they might have been able to do the same with like a quarter of the episodes less. Also the supporting characters Flower Girls and Muggle friend (I'm terrible at remembering names), are a bit less interesting than Kuroko and Miss Lightning. Also the antagonists are not well done. All except one are the type of mad sadistic bastards that is not my preference when it comes to antagonists.
but yeah on the whole I liked it quite a bit.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Tue May 09, 2017 6:17 am

I find it funny that there is a series of anime called "A certain",and then you just stick random words after that."A certain space opera",a show about star wars."A certain killer forklift",mst3k."A certain silent but deadly",ninja anime....The synopsis for railgun sounds interesting,so I may give that one a watch.

To switch gears once again:
Has anyone watched season two of attack on titan?I plan to wait for it to air fully before going into it.Also,I think Ill rewatch the first season to remind myself of everything,because it was years ago.Seriously,screw this ridiculously long hiatus.
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4th Dimension

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby 4th Dimension » Tue May 09, 2017 2:11 pm

Well in this case the name is pretty descriptive. In this world there are other Electromaisters that can do the whole railgun thing, this is just the story of one.

Railgun is interesting but it is often also a slice of life. It's a spinoff from A certain magical Index (the plot thingimajig is a girl with an library of dangerous magical text in her head), following the life of a certain lightning mistress miss that constantly runs into the protagonist and who allways manages to tick her off so she want to fight him. The only thing saving him from being turned to crisp is the fact that his right hand can erase any unnatural powers like magic or esper powers, so he is immune to her lightning no matter how much she rages on him. Which often times then brings the power grid down...
Slice of life is funny and entertaining because of the characters but as I said it can feel a drag from time to time as you wait for the plot to kick in.
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Wide And Nerdy

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Wide And Nerdy » Tue May 09, 2017 3:28 pm

I've been catching up with Dragon Ball Super (I'm guessing its the kind of thing that would make the other anime fans on this board cringe, I feel like I'm the guy talking about how much I like Bud Light in front of wine connoisseurs.)

After hearing about it, it sounded like it was going to be another round of "Oh no, I've never felt a power this strong. Wait, how did Goku get this powerful. Incredible, it took him three episodes to power up but it was worth it. Feel the tension of Frieza and Goku staring at each other for two episodes" type of thing.

But while they absolutely go whole hog for the what the fans want, more power ups, more transformations, they recognize that it has to feel meaningful. They can't just do super saiyan 5, more power, more spikey hair, more glow. They do everything they can to make Super Saiyan God feel different and special.

The name, the way the power up is achieved and what it means when Vegeta is able to do it without following that process, the fact that it takes Goku a while to explore the limits of the power, the fact that Goku can stack the King Kai Fist with the form. And like with the original super saiyan, there's a whole arc of exploring the form's limits. Super Saiyan 2 was originally supposed to be the perfection and mastery of the original Super Saiyan transformation, with many intermediate steps. Something similar happens with Super Saiyan God.

The also get imaginative with the challenges, leading to the Universe Survival Arc. Speaking of which, they find a nice way to make the passed over characters relevant again with that. Sure Goku may be the strongest (or Vegeta) but with the Battle Royale match coming up, the others are making themselves relevant by showing Goku how weaker fighters can challenge him with strategy and team tactics.

The series also seems to be going out of its way to point out that Goku isn't some noble superhero, to the point that the fans have had to question whether Goku is actually a villain. We see the results of his negligence over and over again.

I'm not saying its all that deep but its surprisingly so for Dragon Ball. More than you'd expect after DBZ. The series is also better paced. Granted thats a low bar to clear.
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Retsam

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Retsam » Tue May 09, 2017 5:29 pm

Wide And Nerdy wrote:I've been catching up with Dragon Ball Super (I'm guessing its the kind of thing that would make the other anime fans on this board cringe, I feel like I'm the guy talking about how much I like Bud Light in front of wine connoisseurs.)


Just scroll back up to where I was saying positive things about SAO. And as my friend likes to say, a hamburger isn't a steak dinner, but there's nothing wrong with enjoying a hamburger.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Tue May 09, 2017 5:36 pm

Retsam wrote:
Wide And Nerdy wrote:I've been catching up with Dragon Ball Super (I'm guessing its the kind of thing that would make the other anime fans on this board cringe, I feel like I'm the guy talking about how much I like Bud Light in front of wine connoisseurs.)


Just scroll back up to where I was saying positive things about SAO. And as my friend likes to say, a hamburger isn't a steak dinner, but there's nothing wrong with enjoying a hamburger.


Also,there are fine gourmet hamburgers and crappy take out steaks.Wait,what were we talking about again?

Anyway,I never cared about any of the balls of dragons,but from what Ive heard super is superior(ha!) to the previous one.
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Retsam

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Retsam » Tue May 09, 2017 5:47 pm

Daemian Lucifer wrote:
Retsam wrote:
Wide And Nerdy wrote:I've been catching up with Dragon Ball Super (I'm guessing its the kind of thing that would make the other anime fans on this board cringe, I feel like I'm the guy talking about how much I like Bud Light in front of wine connoisseurs.)


Just scroll back up to where I was saying positive things about SAO. And as my friend likes to say, a hamburger isn't a steak dinner, but there's nothing wrong with enjoying a hamburger.


Also,there are fine gourmet hamburgers and crappy take out steaks.Wait,what were we talking about again?


I don't know, but I'm hungry now.
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Wide And Nerdy

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Wide And Nerdy » Tue May 09, 2017 9:09 pm

Oh forgot to add, I really like how Vegeta's character has matured. The maturity was actually necessary for him to achieve Super Saiyan God. There's a wonderful scene with him where he matches a young Saiyan, gets him to discover his ability to go Super Saiyan, then goes Super Saiyan God to show him where he can hope to go next. Vegeta is actually acting like a good Prince or a King now. Maybe it comes from being a father.
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mwchase
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Re: Anime might be cool

Postby mwchase » Thu May 11, 2017 2:40 am

Read a bunch of stuff on Dune recently, and now I'm wondering what it would look like to engage with Dune's themes through the medium of Gundam.

I mean, they've both got goofy multicultural names, and the idea of exceptional humans emerging as a result of... something.
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4th Dimension

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby 4th Dimension » Thu May 11, 2017 6:21 am

Well, Dune is more about religion, myth and massve scale terraforming and the protagonists while they are good at fighting are not there to fight, but to LEAD their groups to victory. So I don't know if sticking Muad'dib in a mech would work. Also the series has always been about ridiculously smart people trying to pull one over each other, I mean in one of the meetings the people meeting know like ALL the languages and they convey nuances by choosing specific dialects. Like at one point one guy insults a Sister by using a specific genderless dialect when talking about her implying she was never a sex object while that is exactly part of Bene Geserit duties.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Thu May 11, 2017 6:28 pm

4th Dimension wrote:Well, Dune is more about religion, myth and massve scale terraforming


I thought it was about giant phallic symbols,fat disgusting blobs and practically naked skinny guys.
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4th Dimension

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby 4th Dimension » Fri May 12, 2017 6:19 am

Daemian Lucifer wrote:
4th Dimension wrote:Well, Dune is more about religion, myth and massve scale terraforming


I thought it was about giant phallic symbols,fat disgusting blobs and practically naked skinny guys.

Well that might be what the Dune the movie is about, but I never watched it in recent memory, while I have heard (Audible) the books this or last year.

Anyway Apart from Railgun I finished Index. In short Index is fun whenever they aren't trying to speak about the occult and explain shit using it. At such moments they INSTANTLY loose my attention and my eyes get firmly set into the maximum deflection eyeroll. But yeah the rest is really fun. I think I might prefer Railgun 1 slightly more simply because of no occult part. Also FUUUUUUUCCCCKKKK Accelerator that OP* psycho. And Accelerator of the Sisters arc doesn't really feel like Accelerator during his redemption phase.

I have also started watching RailgunS the second season of Railgun, and it's significantly better than Railgun in that it has a clear plot so far and Mikoto gets to cut loose a lot more, and fights are more satisfying than the meh mech fight from the end of Railgun. Also I love MIKASAs, and how they push Mikoto's buttons in ways you would not expect from them. Utter trolls ;) Shame 10.000 of them die to the asshole up above in gruesome ways.

* His power is total vector control. And by TOTAL I mean TOTAL, anything that has a direction that touches him he is able to redirect and play with it's vector in whatever manner he pleases. So basically he is invulnerable to basically everything. Kinetic? Don't even try. EM fields? Please. Teleportation? Probably requires N dimensional movement and therefore vectors so no. The only thing that might work is trying to suffocate him. That is until he starts messing with wind vectors to bring him fresh air.
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4th Dimension

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby 4th Dimension » Fri May 12, 2017 11:59 pm

Finished RailgunS. It was a blast. It's significantly better than the first season since it's more tightly woven with a lot less filler. The second arc might seem a bit of a more muted affair than the first one, but it's there mostly so Mikoto finally stops blaming everything on herself and starts relying more on her friends. It is a shame we did not get more of MIKASAs.

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There was some mech bashing though and Saten piloting a BIG one tu punch others:
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So yeah RailgunS gets my stamp of approval since it doesn't do much wrong in my opinion.
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SpammyV
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Re: Anime might be cool

Postby SpammyV » Mon May 15, 2017 2:21 am

More with Gundam X.

One thing that's standing out to me with Gundam X, that may be due to Gundam X being made after Zeta and ZZ, is that Gundam X feels more comfortable leaving episodes without a real conclusion so multi-episode arcs flow together. I mean, Zeta and ZZ had their arcs, but it felt more like they wrapped things up every episode, where Gundam X seems more likely to leave things hanging to lead into the next episode. It makes the series easier to binge-watch, at least.

Also, there was a whole episode dedicated to giving Witz and Roybea characterization, which honestly felt pretty refreshing. The UC shows are good but tended to really focus on the protagonist with a little bit of ensemble cast attention going around. You didn't get episodes where they took the side pilots away from the rest of the cast to give them more characterization. And for being a completely standalone episode it was still good for giving the two of them some depth.

Dear Space Revolutionary Army,

Putting a mobile suit torso where a battleship's bridge should be doesn't make it a mobile armor. It's still a battleship.

Sincerely,
SpammyV


Oh, and the unbelievable happened:

THEY MADE GARROD GO BACK AND PICK UP ALL THE WEAPONS HE DROPPED IN THE EPISODE'S BATTLE
WHAT THE HELL IS THE WORLD COMING TO WHEN A GUNDAM SERIES ACKNOWLEDGES THAT THE PILOT DROPS HIS RIFLE EVERY FIGHT
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The Rocketeer

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby The Rocketeer » Mon May 15, 2017 6:06 am

Oh, don't even get me started on the whole, "if we have enough replacement parts to rebuild the entire Gundam six times, why don't we just build six more Gundams" thing. I always accepted that was just something you had to roll with and that everything was as scarce or plentiful as it needed to be to maintain the status quo unless stated otherwise. I think there's one throwaway line in MSG when Amuro is discussing a new configuration strategy and he says, "Oh, but this way when I discard the shield I won't be able to recover it right away." It's nice that someone is thinking about that stuff, but supply logistics usually seems to work so fully on the level of contrivance and writer convenience that I almost don't even want them to bother.

At least in that AWGX example, it sounds more like a weapon/ammo conservation thing, and the show has tended to play up how limited ammo/energy is in a battle and how rare prototype weapons/systems are.
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4th Dimension

Re: Anime might be cool

Postby 4th Dimension » Wed May 17, 2017 7:20 am

And I have finished Index II: The Nun punching Bugaloo, yes there is a ridiculous amount of nun punching.

And I can't really say I liked it, or disliked. Well it would be better to say that all of the parts that had the Railgun side of things and especially MISAKAs worked for me, especially since MISAKA shenanigans are so fun. Hell I even started liking sort of the Accelerator... until he started again with his laughing and unrestrained violence (well restrained by the fact that it's now battery powered). On th other hand on the Science side it's still filled with absolute monsters and scientist's MO seems to be MAKE or FIND a kid/girl and then perform horryfying unethical experiments not even treating them as human. I mean is the entire city's scientific community stuffed with Mengele's or something.

And the Magic side for me is utter wash. It tries oh so hard to be edgy as fuck in mixing occult and religion and trying to make arguments that are hardcore and shit. But most of the time it mostly pissed me off, since it was ridiculous, or activelly bored me since I did not care for their stupid arguments and I was simply going along awaiting to get more Railgun shenanigans. Hell I would even go as far to recommend simply skipping all of the arcs that don't contain Mikoto or her sisters (10k of them) since those devolve mostly to Roman Catholic Church is ridiculously and cartoonishly evil, has a religion or magic powered thingimajig that they will unleash on their opponents, all the while cackling maniacally, and the problems get resolved by using some Magic and a LOT of PUNCHING nuns in the face with magic canceling hand. And as a disclamer, I am not a Roman Catholic and in fact as an Orthodox don't see an eye to eye with them, but still found most of the depiction of them as horrifyingly off putting.
So a complete WASH for me and as far as I'm concerned, but I'm also aware it might just be my biases and people without these biases of mine might enjoy more this side of the story.

Oh and I usually prefer things subbed, but I had to watch some of them dubbed since the files of those got screwed up and the subs weren't working.
Dub is okay, but not more than that and I don't like that they didn't try finding voice actresses that could get the same tone of the voices from the origial. I mean Mikoto and Keroko are prime example's of that. Mikoto as the protagonist of the Railgun is a bit of a tomboy tsundere who is quite likely to react with rage at things (and since she is mistress of lightning in a high tech city, those two don't mesh well), and her voice in Japanese is on the gruff female side of things fitting her brash persona. Keroko is even better because she has a voice of a 50 year old chain smoking world weary lady, which fits her personality to a T and makes her amorous and physical obsession with Mikoto even more interesting. In the dub they both get rather default female voices with Mikoto even being stuck with a twinge of a Valley Girl. So no not a fan of the dub, but it's not the worst.

Also the Index kind of suffers from the fact that it's clear it's an adaptation of a manga in that it is composed of rather self contained arcs and the ending simply happens and doesn't really seem like the entire story. Hell the anime leaves the stage just as the entire city is gearing up for war and things are kicking into a higher gear, and the last two episodes aren't really meant to be an epilogue to the de facto finale in the episode 22 of 24. In fact those two episodes are a mini arc focusing on Accelerator (then again the "final" arc was also a rather Acceleratory affair, that could have worked even without the involvement of more psychotic nuns) and don't really close the story and feel like a start of another arc.

I can also complain about the fact that during the final arc involvement of MIKASAs and Mikoto despite their sister being in peril was rather underwhelming with Mikoto being stuck smashing mooks in some cutaway scenes and MIKASAs basically disabled since Last Order was hacked, but I think this is it for now.

TLDR version: Liked Railgun II, Railgun is fine and Index is probably down to personal preference but I did not like it's parts that aren't Railgun related.

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