Movies are cool as well

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Steve C

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Steve C » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:34 pm

I chose those films to compare because superheroes are frivolous. Religion is important. Therefore all a director needs to do is put RELIGION in caps in 150 point font at the start of a film, and bookend it with RELIGION at the end of movie and therefore everything in between is automatically significant. I of course do not agree with any of that. What is significant or not is what is inside those bookends. I judge the movie by what's inside while rolling my eyes at whatever bookends it is given. (Superheroes is just an example. As is ghosts, aliens, etc.)

I'm saying: theme is unimportant if a movie is good or not. It is just theme. Just one part of a movie.

BTW I don't agree they have similar themes. Sure, faith and destiny are themes in all those movies. It's like comparing a cake to a quiche because they both have eggs in. The degrees of which differ greatly and are emphasized in such different ways that it's not similar. (Which can be compared, sure, but has no bearing if it is good.) Arrival has heaps of destiny and little faith. Silence has heaps of faith and little destiny. They are similar in that they both suck for similar reasons. They forgot to include a movie with the theme they chose to explore.

Consider this: A thought experiment of changes to Silence...
Set it in the Marvel Universe. Change Japan to Genosha. All the actors are exactly the same. All the events and scenes are exactly the same. Dialogue is changed in minor ways so that everyone has faith that Magneto will save them. And that Professor Xavier will hear their pleas of help.
I believe that would be a solid contender for the worst movie ever made.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:51 pm

Thomas wrote:Unbroken has the same themes of faith and destiny as all of Shyamalan's other films.


Mr glass was driving the events of unbreakable*,so it wasnt destiny.Nor was it faith,because without his involvement,dunn would never have realized that he was a superhero.And it wasnt faith or destiny that turned price into mr glass,it was his search for purpose and his broken mind.

*Unbroken was directed by Angelina Jolie
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Thomas

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Thomas » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:44 pm

Themes might not matter if a film is good or not, but you were talking about pretension, which I assume would 100% involve the themes/meaning.



Unbreakable changes destiny up the most for his films but its still about it All of them involve a protagonist who has had a path laid out for them by a higher order - normally spiritual but in Unbreakable's case its a kind of karmic destiny - the protagonist, for some reason has fallen off the path/doesn't realise its there. The films climax with the protagonist realising their predestined role and accepting their place in that path.

Most of the Unbreakable you think its following that pattern classically but the Mr Glass reveal complicates it - but doesn't change it. Mr Glass wasn't acting as a free agent either - he had grown up believing he was fated to be a villain and literally gives a speech about how it was always going to turn out like this and he believed he was just playing his predestined role.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:29 pm

It wasnt his destiny,he wouldve lead a perfectly normal life if mr glass didnt get involved.Not to mention all the other people who died for this experiment to work.He wasnt the one chosen by some higher power,he was the one found by killing off a bunch.Just how Neil Armstrong wasnt the chosen one,but just the one who managed to endure all the training in order to complete the mission.

And what the diseased mind of mr glass conjured up does not make it something destined by a higher power.It was just him trying to justify his crappy lot in life.
Steve C

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Steve C » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:58 pm

Thomas wrote:Themes might not matter if a film is good or not, but you were talking about pretension, which I assume would 100% involve the themes/meaning.
No, not really. Which themes are used are inconsequential. That's why I included a series of example movies with different themes. To be clear, I chose those movies because they had different themes, not because they had similar ones. I primarily chose them because they had similar tone and rising tension. They all had a buildup around what was happening and why. They all prodded at the audience as the movie progressed saying, "There is a deeper meaning here. A subtext that will be highlighted in the final act." They all had a reveal that was foreshadowed and a major part of the payoff of the climax. (Or rather a non-existent payoff and a non-existent climax in the case of Silence and Arrival.)

The inclusion of a theme (any theme) does NOT give a movie meaning. Not on it's own. "Themes/meaning" is not interchangeable. That is my point. If a movie attempts to derive all of it's meaning from the theme then it is a pretentious waste of time masquerading as something meaningful. And again, "meaningful" is in context of the movie.

I'm going to let Daemian carry the tangent on Unbreakable. I agree with his take (and spelling). I'd argue that none of those 4 movies have similar themes, but I really don't care to. They were just examples of movies with a heavily foreshadowed last act reveal, where the reveal has meaning because of the foreshadowing. Where if you cut out one of those parts the whole movie collapses.
Steve C

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Steve C » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:49 am

I just watched Split. Somewhat appropriate to this discussion as it is another M. Night Shamadingdong movie (which I didn't realize until I saw him in it). I say only "somewhat appropriate" because it is neither a good example nor a poor one of what I was saying about themes vs meaning. Split has themes in it. Those themes have a meaning to the narrative of the movie, but nothing profound or anything. Just normal movie stuff that it tries to make work.

I did not like Split. I didn't like it on many different levels. At least I didn't feel like a sucker for giving it a chance.
Steve C

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Steve C » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:34 pm

After a long LONG dry spell of movies I have not cared for, I've finally watched one I liked: Logan. A straight up quest story. Nothing fancy, just a solid movie with a surprisingly good child actor.
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Jokerman

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Jokerman » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:23 am

I spent monday watch all the rocky films (apart from 5, because fuck 5)... which was a great way to spend a monday off.

My thoughts of them are the same, 3 is still my favorite of the series, the bromance between Apollo and Rocky being my favorite bromance ever, after watching the first 2 films as a kid, the thing i took away was how awesome Apollo Creed was... and how i would miss him in the sequels, and then they near enough make a whole film about him... very cool. Basically i rate the original films 3>1>4>2>5, and 2 ain't bad, it's just a rehash of 1, Apollo is still great.... they made Rocky extra dumb, but the fight was better than the first (far less obvious missed punches, these things start to stand out when you watch and score boxing for real)

Rocky 6 (Balboa) is still the 2nd worse for me, just... drab, dreary and the fight is boring, Tarver was boring... the son was annoying, bleh, wish they hadn't bothered and just gone straight to Creed...

Which leads me into Creed, which i watched for the first time... i was really surprised by how good it is, which is weird, since it seems to have traced over Rocky 1's script (although the antagonist was more Mr T than Apollo) but it was great, heart warming... proper rocky film and the action was better than ever, I even like Tony Bellew (who played the antagonist) in this film.... which was surprising.

But.... apparently i missed one, i have it on good authority from a Rocky fan that 'Grude Match' is underrated and actually pretty good, so ill watch that... how can i pass up Jake Lamotta (De Niro plays the other fighter ) vs Rocky?
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Lachlan the Sane
Location: I come from the land down under, where women blow and men chunder

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Lachlan the Sane » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:50 am

Today's adventure in "What the fuck, Netflix": "We recommend that you should watch Team America: World Police because of your interest in District Nine!"
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:37 pm

Lachlan the Mad wrote:Today's adventure in "What the fuck, Netflix": "We recommend that you should watch Team America: World Police because of your interest in District Nine!"


Huh....Well I can see how the two.......Ummm,they both have lots of graphic violence in them?
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Narratorway
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Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Narratorway » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:44 pm

They're not light for commentary...sooo...
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Lachlan the Sane
Location: I come from the land down under, where women blow and men chunder

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Lachlan the Sane » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:53 am

I mean, I suppose that you could technically call both of them satire and/or social commentary? But District Nine's satire is mostly specific to South Africa and takes a very clear political stance, while Team America tries to satire everything in such a scattershot way that it doesn't really count as satire any more.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Wed May 03, 2017 7:23 pm

Logan wrote:They are making something without a soul


Oh my god,they got their hands on deadpool from origins!Those evil bastards!
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Narratorway
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Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Narratorway » Fri May 05, 2017 6:48 am

GotG: V2 is great!

But it's just great.

It's hard to pin down. Everything's so...morose this time. The original movie had a fresh, irreverent energy running through the whole thing with a very clear sense of emotionally valid and frankly arresting damage coming from the characters that was fueling everything under the hood. This movie flips all that around. We still get incredible character-based set pieces, but there's a lot more 'talk-it-out' happening in this flick and while it validates the characters, it ends up siphoning the aforementioned energy rather than fueling it. It's just harder to feel the fun when you know the characters are carrying baggage, and more importantly, they know they're carrying it too.

Still, it's not lacking for its wonderful moments...including a reference I absolutely was not expecting:

Image
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Fri May 05, 2017 6:54 pm

Guardians of the galaxy has finally revealed one of the most important secrets of the whole mcu:

Yes,Stan Lee is one of the watchers.

And if you thought antman or the first guardians was crazy when it comes to crazy marvel characters,oh boy.It really is hard to go crazier than having one of the characters be part human part planet.

Also Kurt Russell ages backwards much better than Jeff Bridges.Though it may be just because he was on the screen shorter in his youngified form.

What I did not expect is not only that the movie will open with an animated miniature tree riding an animated rat while theres a big fight scene in the background,but that later therell be a callback to this with an animated miniature tree and an animated raccoon just chilling while theres a huge fight off screen.Now thats comedy.

So yeah,I liked it.

Narratorway wrote:including a reference I absolutely was not expecting


I did not expect zuneeither.That really came out of nowhere.
Steve C

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Steve C » Wed May 10, 2017 2:01 am

I tried to watch some movies this week. I went with some high scoring movies. I tried "La La Land" and "Manchester by the Sea". I didn't expect to like "La La Land" because I do not like music. I was correct. I didn't. "Manchester by the Sea" looked interesting. I was wrong. It wasn't. It was boring and went nowhere slow.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Thu May 18, 2017 7:40 pm

How do you top nazis from the moon?With hitler on a dinosaur,of course.
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Narratorway
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Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Narratorway » Fri May 19, 2017 9:47 pm

Holy shit Covenant is terrible and you should not see it! I mean it! Its plot is like some bizarre hybrid of Alien and the worst Star Trek fanfiction that revolved around Data and Lor...but wasn't smut. What makes it even worse is that even though this is far and away the worst written one in the core franchise, Scott's direction means it looks like an actual movie, robbing you of enjoying it simply on a superficial 'MST3K' level, but not for lack of trying. It features for the first time 'alien vision' and it is the dumbest looking shit. However, the worst thing is that it tries to sell this third act twist that'll only surprise you if you've never experienced..well, a story...of any kind...ever.

Don't see it.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Fri May 19, 2017 10:04 pm

Narratorway wrote:What makes it even worse is that even though this is far and away the worst written one in the core franchise,


Worse than four?Wow,thats an achievement.

Narratorway wrote:It features for the first time 'alien vision' and it is the dumbest looking shit.


Well,thats me convinced to not watch it.I like how the avp games did it,so Im not keen on seeing it done badly.
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Thomas

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Thomas » Sat May 27, 2017 10:33 pm

Watched Ex Machina at last. It's a bit sad, isn't it?
Ninety-Three

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Ninety-Three » Sun May 28, 2017 3:28 am

Thomas wrote:Watched Ex Machina at last. It's a bit sad, isn't it?


I can't figure out if the author intended the implication that she locked him in there to starve to death, or if we're supposed to not think about it/imagine he somehow escaped.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sun May 28, 2017 4:17 am

Ninety-Three wrote:she locked him in there to starve to death,


To me it seems like an outright statement,not an implication.What else couldve happened to him other than death?
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Thomas

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Thomas » Sun May 28, 2017 12:50 pm

I too am fully in the intentional death camp. Just like Larry Zuckerberg saw Mad Eye Moody's son as a thing to manipulate and held no true attachment to anyone, so too did indie-Keira Knightley. It was easier for her if he died, so she let him die.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Tue May 30, 2017 2:59 pm

The reviews for wonder woman are coming in positive.Thats good news.Its also a good test for the theory that its Zack Snyder who is making bad dc movies.Sadly,he is still directing the justice league,but the flash and aquaman can be saved.
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Retsam

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Retsam » Tue May 30, 2017 5:43 pm

Green Lantern would like to remind you that Zack Snyder isn't the only one to blame for recent bad DC movies.

But hey, glad to hear that they maybe made a good one. Hopefully this is a sign of a general shift in strategy, and not just a broken clock being right twice a day.

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