The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Necromance old blog posts, talk about Shamus' books or videos, or discuss allied projects like Errant Signal
Forum rules
This forum is not for swiping blog threads. Avoid talking about blog posts less than a month old.
User avatar
Daemian Lucifer

The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:17 pm

The book,tv show,the future video game when it gets made?Talk about all of those here,because Thomas is sick of you polluting other topics with it.

4th Dimension wrote:Yeah, I was thinking about that. My only worry is that there won't be enough posts/interest to justify it.


Are you kidding?Thats practically the only thing in the last two pages of the tv show thread.Of course there is enough interest to justify it.But even if that werent the case,no one would scold you for opening a new topic to discuss something you want.Be more impulsive leela.Like this:

Image

Ringwraith wrote:I know I can't contribute because as the series is currently airing a season, it's not on Netflix for non-Americans yet.


If I can talk about star trek and the next generation four decades after it was made,surely you can talk about the season 1 of a show that was aired just a year before.Come on people,make this forum buzzing with activity like it never has buzzed before!
User avatar
Ringwraith

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby Ringwraith » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:44 pm

Oh yeah, the first season, just can't contribute to the spoiler-filled discussion pertaining to anything after that!
As the first season went up on Netflix pretty much immediately after it finished airing in America.
User avatar
Retsam

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby Retsam » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:26 pm

As annoying as it is, it's nice if people mark spoilers, even in specific-topic threads. I always had a hard time reading the Agents of SHIELD threads because I was always at least a week behind, and it was an unmarked spoilers topic.
User avatar
4th Dimension

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby 4th Dimension » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:00 pm

As far as I'm concerned it's fine if we discuss things that are happening in the show. I would though like for things that are yet to happen in the TV show to be marked as spoilers when discussing books.
As for the whole "It's not on Netlix yet" I sincerely doubt anyone who is waiting for the season to end and appear on Netlix (is that how it works) is going to be reading this thread anyway. Also there are always "other" ways of watching something that is not available in your region, which is how I am watching it.
User avatar
4th Dimension

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby 4th Dimension » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:42 am

Again this is from the first book which I'm currently reading/listening. Audible split the audiobooks into two parts of pretty equal lengths, and the split is during escape from Eros. So I guess first season cut somewhat shortly after the first half of the book. Which makes me wonder what part of the second part was removed for them to wrap it up in less than a season. Maybe not so much time was needed to be given to set the universe up (explaining the universe takes longer on TV than in print due to show not tell).

Also Zombies really?!? Well not literally the undead but they might as well be. I'm kind of glad that particular aspect got cut.
User avatar
Andrew

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby Andrew » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:57 pm

Yeah I wasn't a big fan of how they portrayed that either. I mean, on the one hand, it sorta makes sense, but on the other hand, it's pretty silly.

There a fair bit of exposition in the final 1/3 of Leviathan's Wake that gets a little.... wordy? To be honest, I think they show it much better in the TV series by cutting out a lot of stuff that probably wasn't necessary. That part in episode 4 where Miller is wandering around Eros with the bomb? That takes up 2, maybe 3, whole chapters in Leviathan's Wake (is that a spoiler? I know you've seen the episode already but I don't think you're up to that part in the novel.) They got through it in the first 5.5 episodes and the last little bit of episode 6 is basically the start of Caliban's War. Based on how they're proceeding I'd wager that season 2 just might catch up to the end of Caliban's War because although a lot happens I can see most of it being cut for TV purposes.

Abaddon's Gate is where things might start to get really interesting from a TV series perspective because the whole universe changes in that novel.

Speaking of Abaddon's Gate, I haven't posted about it much recently because I took a bit of a break. Mostly because I find a lot of the new characters to be... not so interesting. I'm about 2/3's of the way through and will probably finish it in the next week or so now.

Melba is not compelling as a bad guy (girl?) and Anna is about as interesting as dry toast. I like Bull quite a lot but he's dead, right? I mean, surely, he has to die. I can't see his story ending any other way. And even though she's not a POV character, I really like Sam too, although I have a dreadful feeling she is going to meet her demise in this novel as well. I'm not sure why - I think it's because of how closely aligned to Bull she is.

And of course the stuff with Holden and "Miller" and what's happening with the greater universe... now that's where the novel is really interesting!

From what I can gather there were 3 super powers in the universe, once upon a time. The race who built the protomolecule, the race who build the station in the middle of the gates (this, hive-like, consciousness) and the race who destroyed half the galaxy. Does anyone care to correct me if I'm wrong?
Steve C

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby Steve C » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:56 am

A youtuber has created a series about the science in The Expanse. I watched a couple and it's pretty good:

Let's Do the Science of The Expanse, S02E08 "Pyre" (12:30)
https://youtu.be/KyooE7bazT0
User avatar
4th Dimension

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby 4th Dimension » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:35 am

If it was shown in the show, I'm fine with knowing it. But if you are unsure simply slap the spoiler tag on it. I'll still probably read all of it since I'm curious by nature and like to know were the book is going.

Yes, there are things that are done in the TV show better. Like the TV show explains how the crew actually managed to get to the Rossie past all the security before the security got in an internal scrap. On the other hand I like how a lot of the somehat pointless squabbles and drama between the crew does not exist in the books.
gloatingswine

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby gloatingswine » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:41 pm

Andrew wrote:From what I can gather there were 3 super powers in the universe, once upon a time. The race who built the protomolecule, the race who build the station in the middle of the gates (this, hive-like, consciousness) and the race who destroyed half the galaxy. Does anyone care to correct me if I'm wrong?


The protomolecule builders are also the ones who built the station in the middle of the gates (the Protomolecule itself is a terraforming tool, spit it at a planet, it terraforms it then creates a linkage to the gate network). The station in gatespace is the hub for managing that network running relatively autonomously and not particularly clever beyond its specified task.

Something killed them. It may or may not have been another actual species, the only real glimpse was in Cibola Burn. It was a something.
User avatar
4th Dimension

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby 4th Dimension » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:05 pm

The Expanse Season 2 Episode 09:

Ah that thing in the end was probably injected for the purposes of the show to show Holden what can happen due to his crusading/paladin tendencies since Miller was not able to do it in the show like it happened in the books.

Bobbie behaved like a Marine and followed her orders and did not tell the truth but this should give an idea to Aversala where to dig. The trouble is it seems her little speech couple episodes back did not work on mister big shot.

I wonder what are the chances that that stealth ship near Venus is another of the Protogen's stealth ships and not a Martian one.

Did that thing really carve a hole that deep?!?!

The Books: Book 1

I'm up to the part where they are confronting the mad scientist. I kind of like more the sequence of events in the books since it gives a chance to Miller to feel like a part of the crew and book also did not have a bunch of pointless spats between crew members like in the Show. On the other hand the sequence of events in the TV show works better at maintaining the mystery.
Also the station as described in the books is nothing like the one in the TV show. In TV show it looks like something that got hastily re purposed, while in the books it's a full blown custom made well lit and nicely decorated station, probably filled with personel with their empathy part of the brain removed.
Steve C

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby Steve C » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:19 pm

4th Dimension wrote:In TV show it looks like something that got hastily re purposed,

I think the blame for that can fall on the director and the prop dept more than the story. I get the impression that nobody on the cast and crew was particularly happy with that director from interviews. Basically he focused on details and everything suffered from it. The VFX was awesome but that was in the pipe forever.

I was really looking forward to seeing the suit footage of the complete battle. It would have been awesome if it was half as good as the book description. The suit keeps popping up in the show to tease and tease. It's a bit much at this point. Just show it already! I also wanted to see Bobbie's full reaction to Earth. The hole is cool... I guess. <kicks a stone>. I'm more disappointed with it than impressed. Especially since it's just more tease. This eps should have been titled "Blueballs".
Also it was cool that Apophis from SG-1 was in this episode.
User avatar
Andrew

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby Andrew » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:01 am

gloatingswine wrote:The protomolecule builders are also the ones who built the station in the middle of the gates (the Protomolecule itself is a terraforming tool, spit it at a planet, it terraforms it then creates a linkage to the gate network). The station in gatespace is the hub for managing that network running relatively autonomously and not particularly clever beyond its specified task.

Something killed them. It may or may not have been another actual species, the only real glimpse was in Cibola Burn. It was a something.

Thanks for that. It actually makes a lot more sense that way than it did my way!
User avatar
Andrew

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby Andrew » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:03 am

4th Dimension wrote:The Books: Book 1

I'm up to the part where they are confronting the mad scientist. I kind of like more the sequence of events in the books since it gives a chance to Miller to feel like a part of the crew and book also did not have a bunch of pointless spats between crew members like in the Show. On the other hand the sequence of events in the TV show works better at maintaining the mystery.
Also the station as described in the books is nothing like the one in the TV show. In TV show it looks like something that got hastily re purposed, while in the books it's a full blown custom made well lit and nicely decorated station, probably filled with personel with their empathy part of the brain removed.

Yes, but the really pertinent question here is... what did you think of the space battle, as described in the novel?

Was it better or worse than what we got in the TV show???

Steve knows why I'm asking.. :P
User avatar
4th Dimension

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby 4th Dimension » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:44 am

The battle... Hmmm.... I think... I think... I think I might prefer the TV version more? The TV version has things happening at a ridiculously short range and stupidly fires off the boarding team BEFORE the coast is clear but with some creative ignoring of some facts it's pretty entertaining and good. Also the TV shows with all the simulations in which they got killed that Kemal ran, that they kind of got lucky which is believable.

The book version offends me on several levels because for example they explicitly note that Rossy is a bomber while the enemy has two interceptors which I supposed are made to shoot bombers down which makes Rossie tearing two of them apart kind of silly. The station having it's EXTENSIVE defenses be centered around ONE sensor package which when taken out shuts it completely down. I consider the lack of basic redundancy to be silly. Hell one of the ships could have stuck with the station to keep feeding it it's sensor data. The repeated mentioning of their electronic warfare had me miffed because electronic warfare doesn't really work that way. Emitting that much noise is the best possible way to get yourself killed because it's akin to walking into a dark room with ridiculously powerful unidirectional light. Sure for a moment you will blind people inside but after that has passed they will no longer need their nightvision since you are screaming "RIGHT HERE! SHOOT RIGHT HERE!" Today's missiles have home in on jam setting as an extension of home in on radar. Why did the enemy ships split up? Why not double team the Rossie? The way they did it it ensured the possibility of defeat in detail.
That reminds me of the part where they comment on how the targeting laser of some ship is so small as an amazing thing at such a range. I think that the writer doesn't actually know what those are used for? They are for ranging and potentially to guide munitions in (two modes missile can home in on laser reflection (the American system (Maverics use this I think)) or it can ride the beam (the Russian Vhkir system)) And for both considering the ranges and spacing between targets the only thing that matters is the amount of power at target so enough gets reflected back. A too small tight target is kind of useless because you might miss it.
Also he kept repeating that there was no air in Rossie during the fight like that was an unexpected thing and not SOP, when it fact it should be SOP. All areas of the ship that don't need pressure to work should be depressurized since vacuum helps a lot with containing the heat based damage like fires.
And on and on. While it's nice that the battle is more detailed that has also allowed the writer to hang himself a bit in my eyes since it exposed the holes I was not aware in his world building.
But it could be just me.
Steve C

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby Steve C » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:36 pm

Yeah they got lucky. The bad guys weren't wearing space suits. Pretty much did it. Makes me wonder why the Roci crew don't bother wearing suits anytime they are expecting trouble. Wearing a space suit is SOP. The bad guys weren't because it was an ambush.

As for the sensor data, the station's sensors are all busy taking in the Eros data. The people reading that data don't care about their own lives compared to that data. They are perfectly happy to let the guys on the stealth ships die because they might take the last slice of pizza.

The electronic counter measures I don't believe are just radio waves. From the various fights they get into I think the counter measures are lasers. They attempt to overwhelm the enemy ship's ability to receive reflected light from their own lasers. I have no idea how well it works in the real world.
User avatar
4th Dimension

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby 4th Dimension » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:54 pm

You can provide the enemy with multiple fake targets, but you don't really want to stand out in the bunch. Think of planes and flares and chaff on them. They don't fool the missiles by turning on a flare on the plane hoping to blind the missile. You toss those away so that the missile thinks they are you.


Sure the scientsits are nuts, but there has to be somebody in charge of defences. That one should have been able to figure out that defeating the attack is more cost effective than loosing the time and money to remove the attackers from the station.
Steve C

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby Steve C » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:39 pm

Flares work, but it is a poor analogy. Creating fake targets wouldn't work due to the distances and speeds involved. A fake target would have to appear so far away so quickly that it simply couldn't be done. It would be more like this. If that laser could stay focused on the cockpit then it would be impossible to tell where the source was. You'd be able to tell direction but that is already known when the missile is fired. If the missile is off by a fraction of a degree it will miss by the width of a planet.

Anything that works off the principles of chaff and flares has no hope of working until a few nanoseconds before impact.
User avatar
4th Dimension

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby 4th Dimension » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:52 am

So you are saying that while you can determine the dirrection of the enemy you can not determine the range?
Actually you might have a point there.
User avatar
4th Dimension

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby 4th Dimension » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:05 am

Okay, I finished The Leviathan wakes.

The thing I like about the book is that the people seem to be less jerks than they are in the TV show. I think the adapters took a bit too much to the heart the whole "Game of Thrones" in space thing, and while I adore the mystery from the first season and the different layers, I also like it how in the book not everyone is an idiot.
Like for example when Eros starts moving and after it there is no straw man admiral there to hold the idiot ball and accuse Mars of doing this. The moment they figure the Protogen has been a bad boy they openly come down on them. While I don't doubt there are still deals being made in the background, it's not the forced masquerade from the TV show. Also again, unlike in the TV show the fall of Eros into Venus is observed by hundreds of ships and since everyone important knows that this thing is allien they are not much suprised when it starts growing spires on Venus. There is no need for the Exploration Ship Venus plot that is currently going on. (I need to watch this week's episode.)
Also I like the fact that Eros did not simply plow into Venus but as far as I could determine from the description it broke up on it's own to seed the protomolecule all over Venus.
Also the scale is larger. As I said there were a LOT of ships waiting Eros to come to Venus, and OF COURSE it would happen. This big objects plowing into Venu's atmosphere will be all the talk of the astronomy journals for some time to come, and the would want all the data they can. Also unlike in the TV show, where it seems like Fred is doing things on his own on a shoestring budget and is only tangentially OPA, in the books he is clearly allmost a spokeperson/leader for them and they have resources enough so that if they loose multiple cargo ships they used to carry nukes to the Eros, that is not a crippling loss. They have no real warships, but they do have plenty civilian ships.
The part that did look odd to me is the whole Phobos attack. It did not feel like a proportional response to Mars inquiring about a rumor. Hell that kind of reaction should pretty much confirm it for Mars. Also Earth plan there is kind of shortsighted. They hit Phobos and turn it into a gravel pile, and then just hang around there waiting for MCRN to assemble it's forces which were all over the Solar system. What was their exit strategy there? Either move in and take control of the Martian skies and impose a deal on them on the threat of bombardment or go away.

Oh oh oh... also again I liked better the interaction between the crew and the characters better (except the stupid "romance" part), where Amos is not a barely restrained functionally amoral jerk. Also I like MIller from the books a bit more. He is a lot more a broken human there. A ass who through circumstances and obsessions ended up doing the seemingly right thing.

And I like the part how the conference at the end of the crisis is on Ceres as a neutral ground.
In general I like that the secret is out in the books which is what I prefer.

On the other hand, I kind of prefer the TV show from the entertainment perspective. While the TV show is really hard, FOR a TV show, as a book it's hardness is so so. There are better things out there I think. So while I have downloaded the book 2, I wonder if I'll continue past it. Also I'm not sure I would have read it if not for the TV show.
Steve C

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby Steve C » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:24 pm

You should put spoiler warnings on the stuff that is not yet aired on the TV show. For example that Exploration Ship Venus plot that is currently going on DOES have a purpose. I would discuss it, but it has not yet aired on the TV show. ;-)

One thing I did not like about Leviathan Wakes was how it spoiled the "Julie is alive" reveal. It was super obvious in the book. So there was no reveal.
User avatar
Andrew

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby Andrew » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:41 am

What's wrong with the romance part?

Holden and Naomi's relationship is one of the most realistic one I've read in a novel series before!
User avatar
4th Dimension

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby 4th Dimension » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:37 am

Steve C wrote:You should put spoiler warnings on the stuff that is not yet aired on the TV show.

What are you referring to?!? I only listened to the first book and like first couple of chapters of the second (the battle on Ganymede seems to be over).
Is it the Venus thing? I thought they changed that in the show... then again the show does not have a year of timeskip between the books so that might be a thing that happens in the future. Even so that shouldn't come as a shock, because who honestly expected for Venus to end the Protomolecule. That thing was probably made to terraform planets and should be able to survive the reentry just fine. Also the books from the get go make it pretty clear that the Eros did not simply plow into Venus as it's shown in the show, but made a controlled and calculated dispersion of it's content all over the Venus.
Hmm. Now that I think about it, if the alegations that the super solder project on Ganymede was made with the Martian support have ANY basis in reality, the books make it more realistic by giving Mars and Protogen a year to come to terms with one another.


@Romance: Oh I'm not saying it's unrealistic, it's just I'm not here to watch a romance plot so all his references on how Naomi is pretty felt like timewasting for me. Miller's Julie thing at least was there to show how unhealthily obsessed and disconnected from normalcy he was becoming.

@The Exploration ship: It probably does, I don't know. It's just that the continued cover up/masquarade and frankly gasslighting of the victims by the higher ups is starting to get on my nerves. Sure Mars totes has a way to propel millions tons of gravel with a magic reaction less drive and the best use for it is to put it on a rock and not on their spaceships.
Sure Bobbie's squad's (platoon in the books + a mech) were totally killed by the UN using conventional arms after which UN got killed too. All those slashes and rips in their armor is nothing. And her camera's... what camera's... The books don't bother with that bull and have a plausible explanation for why they might think it's UN. Her platoon's gear was destroyed during the stationfall and she only survived by getting tossed away by the blast.
Oh and the books explain why the stations around Ganymede look so weird, I thought it was a cool but nonsensical design I expect from TV shows. But they are actually mirrors. Which also explain how you could grow ANYTHING that far away from the Sun.

As for the JUlie mystery, I'm kind of on two opoinions on it. On one hand as I have previously said I adore the sense of mystery and depth of intrigue that the first season had that got you wondering just how deep does the rabbit hole go. So in that way making it a mystery what is going on with Julie made sense.
On the other hand in the books IMO things are more straightforward but also clearer, and the fact that Jullie probably did not come to a nice end is used to showcase Miller's obsession.
Steve C

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby Steve C » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:16 am

Yes I'm referring to the Venus stuff. You are right. It should not be a shock. Yet (according to reddit) many people watching only the show didn't pick up on that. (How or why people consider nuclear weapons more destructive than planetary impacts is a mystery to me.)

As for the science vessel (it's a hard science and research vessel rather than an exploration vessel) it is going to have Adam Savage on it as a cameo. I'm going to guess that when he is on screen then something interesting is going to happen. It will be soon. Sadly there's only 3 episodes left this season.

BTW they do consistently call them mirrors on the show too.
User avatar
Andrew

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby Andrew » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:10 pm

They do call them mirrors on the show. I can confirm this because I just watched episode 8 and Prax did exactly that when he was talking to Holden and Naomi.

They really sped over the Ganymede stuff didn't they? If I'm reading the pace of the 2nd season properly, they going to end the season with the end of Caliban's War (as I suspected all along) so that means they only have 5 episodes for the stuff that happens on Ganymede where they could probably use up to 7.

I've said this before, and I don't really want to harp on it, but I really hate what they are doing with Amos. He is a little bit broken in the novels. He is not a straight up psycotic person who will turn on anyone (friends or foe alike) at a moment's notice. It's an extension of how I hate that they are changing the dynamic of the crew of the Roci with all of this drama that doesn't need to be there. Sure, artistic licence and all that, but I just don't find it to be all that necessary. It's not like they couldn't use the 5 minutes they devote to 'Roci drama' elsewhere - there are whole chapters of novels that they are skipping over!

I am also not a fan of Bobbie in the TV series, which is a shame because I loved her in Caliban's War. I can see what they are doing with her and where they are taking her character, but damn it, she is not as stupid or hot-headed as they are portraying her! She just isn't! It's a total departure from her character in the novels and it's sort of messing with her story.

Re Julie, if you keep reading the novels, you'll get a whole lot more of the mystery in Abaddon's Gate. I'm guessing that's where they'll take seaon 3 of The Expanse as well. It opens up whole new realms of possibilty!.

I find it hard to believe that the way they portrayed Eros crashing into Venus wasn't pretty darn obvious. They gave it it's own scene and everything! The only thing that has been missing from the show is Avasarala being worried over the situation on Venus and devoting a very large chunk of her resources to monitoring everything that happens on Venus. Although I suppose in the novels they didn't have this whole Earth vs Mars thing going on... at least, not in anywhere near as much depth as it is in the TV series.
User avatar
4th Dimension

Re: The Expanse is so cool that I opened this topic just for it

Postby 4th Dimension » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:17 pm

I feel it's the tagline they are advertising the show under that is the problem. I have heard it described as Game of Thrones in space, WHICH IT TOTALLY IS NOT IN THE BOOKS. Sure there is grayness, but nobody nowhere near as much as in the show. As I said the Miller's arc on Ceres for example was a lot less dramatic and topsy turvy and felt realer. The OPA leader there was not a bastard etc.

@Amos, I agree entirely. Amos has... seen shit and has clearly lost a part of his empathy and is a killer in that he will not really feel remorse if he has to kill someone. But he knows that so he is making damn sure to check any action with Nami and Holden first. So yeah, don't like him either.
@Bobie was kind of a shitshow from the start. She has been WAAAAAAAYYYY too abrasive and xenophobic by far. Which is totally not the case in the books since the Martians were sort of rivals/allies with the UN, so there is really no need for the rampant xenophobia. And then they placed her in a position where she could easily be the one to decide whether Mars goes to war with the UN. That was a BONEHEADED decision if I ever saw one. Then came the whole who is the Nth man and her being unable to remember and them sort of glossing over what really happened on the ground that was confusing as F. And even that did nothing to dull her hatred. Then in the last episode she basically goes AWOL and takes a tumble in 1G that would have hut an Earther just so she could see the sea. Why? What was she planning? What? WTF!?!?
Maybe they are driving her to a point where she will need to decide if her anger at Earth outweighs the fate of humanity or something in the finale, I don't know. But so far I am totally not her fan.
Also while we are on Earth, Aversala while it's nice that the guy might have refound his soul, if there is any kind of fuckup an UN bureaucrat can make and would HAVE to be punished in some form. He didn't endanger the future of UNs positon. The project he supported nearly wiped out all life as we know it on Earth. That is so beyond negligence and MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO GO UNPUNISHED. He and his mental state is no longer relevant even, he needs to be an exapmle of NOT TO DO and to inform other that NOONE EVER AGAIN can get such a brilliant idea into his head and think it will work.

Return to “Twenty Sided Stuff”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest