Star trek

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John

Re: Star trek

Postby John » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:27 am

The Odo-Kira romance is basically fine . . . once it actually occurs. It's the moping and the pining and the sad music that goes on for SO LONG beforehand that bothers me. I actually like (in an odd sort of way) how "Children of Time" revealed Odo's feelings to Kira. Surprise, Kira! Odo likes you! And he's a creepy killer! Because he likes you so much! Good luck!
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:04 pm

Blaze of glory is one of the few really surprising star trek episodes:It has a working federation security system that is there to prevent people from doing something dangerous,and it never malfunctions!

Luckily,after that comes empok nor,the episode where a federation security officer does something idiotic and dangerous* when they are supposed to be guarding someone.Balance of unsafety has been restored.

*Pointing a phaser at the person she is supposed to be guarding(while not looking at him even),and at the same time having the safety on for that weapon despite knowing that there is a dangerous individual lurking around.
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Supahewok

Re: Star trek

Postby Supahewok » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:29 pm

The Rocketeer wrote:(I'm actually not an expert on anything except how I like my lemonade)


Fresh-squeezed lemon juice, simple syrup, water?
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:51 pm

The best decision ds9 creators ever did was giving Jeffrey Combs more stuff to do.Watching weyoun ooze around the station is such a delight.He is such an amusing snake to listen to,whether he is slimy,menacing or humble.
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John

Re: Star trek

Postby John » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:01 pm

Daemian Lucifer wrote:The best decision ds9 creators ever did was giving Jeffrey Combs more stuff to do.Watching weyoun ooze around the station is such a delight.He is such an amusing snake to listen to,whether he is slimy,menacing or humble.

How many roles did Combs end up playing? There's Weyoun. (If you want to get technical, there are three of him.) There's Brunt, FCA. And I know that there are more, but I'm drawing a blank at the moment.
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JadedDM

Re: Star trek

Postby JadedDM » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:12 pm

Not DS9, but my favorite Combs role was Thy'lek Shran, the Andorian captain in ENT.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:42 am

He had a couple more bit parts in ds9 and voyager,I think.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:57 pm

One of the themes of ds9 seems to be:Teenagers are morons.Its funny how just one teen manages to actually do something well,and thats nog,a ferengi.Which is probably because its his father who is the moron.So I guess the theme is actually that teens are the exact opposite of their parents.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:53 pm

Statistical probabilities,the episode that introduces the four mutants gone wrong and the shows nod to psychohistory.

There is a missed opportunity though.DS9 never draws parallel between the eugenic wars and the dominion.On one side,we have the federation who dabbled with genetic engineering,created KHAAAAAAAAAANNN,and then decided to abolish the practice entirely.On the other,we have the founders,who embraced genetic engineering fully,turned themselves into a planet wide puddle,and then proceeded to engineer a bunch of slave races to worship them as gods.Thats a pretty strong argument to shy away from the practice,and a far more recent one than KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNN.Alas,the show never uses it.
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John

Re: Star trek

Postby John » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:23 pm

Are you quite certain that the Founders practiced genetic engineering on themselves? I never got that impression. The Jem Hadar, yes. The whatever Weyoun's people were called, yes. But themselves? And didn't Odo find a related shapeshifting-but-non-sentient species in one episode?
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:37 pm

The female founder told him that they were solid once,but that they evolved.Its a strong implication that they were technologically advanced at that point,so they probably did not emerge on a planet of oozes,but rather incorporated that into themselves.And seeing how skilled in genetics they are,plus how they were able to turn odo into a solid,genetic engineering on themselves seems to be a logical conclusion.
Vulture

Re: Star trek

Postby Vulture » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:36 pm

Daemian Lucifer wrote:The female founder told him that they were solid once,but that they evolved.Its a strong implication that they were technologically advanced at that point,so they probably did not emerge on a planet of oozes,but rather incorporated that into themselves.And seeing how skilled in genetics they are,plus how they were able to turn odo into a solid,genetic engineering on themselves seems to be a logical conclusion.


I think it is more likely that Star Trek writers have a very poor understanding of how evolution works :)
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:16 pm

Yeah,ok,thats a fair point.Even the good trek is guilty of using evolution as a "drive towards a specific goal".
Steve C

Re: Star trek

Postby Steve C » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:03 pm

I've continued to watch The Orville. (Is this the right thread for Orville? I legitimately do not know.) Anyway, I straight up did not enjoy the first 2.5 eps. Since then it's been consistently pretty not-bad. Not quite good, but not bad either. I like it. It's giving me that Star Trek fix that I've been jonesing for years now. That part of Trek that has been completely missing in the Abrams-verse is the heart of Orville. The comedy in Orville still makes me groan in a bad way. It's really toned down since those first couple of episodes. If it stays at this level it's tolerable.

Strangely, one of the things holding Orville back is being too Star Trek. Namely the episode plots feel a little too ST:TNG. Which should be a good thing, but they've gone a little too far with it and are recycling ideas instead of being inspired by ideas. When it's possible to name the specific episodes and scenes of TNG is Orville is pulling from, it is crossing into Go-Bot territory. I think Orville could stand on it's own. That's the show I'm waiting to see.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:17 pm

Steve C wrote:It's giving me that Star Trek fix that I've been jonesing for years now. That part of Trek that has been completely missing in the Abrams-verse is the heart of Orville.


Diplomatic missions in space?Impossible!!The audiences demand LAZORS and PEW PEW all the time!MOAR ACTIONN!!!

Steve C wrote:If it stays at this level it's tolerable.


I find the absurd stuff that happens to often be funnier than the actual jokes.Like the robot trying to talk to the kids as their mother.

Steve C wrote:Strangely, one of the things holding Orville back is being too Star Trek. Namely the episode plots feel a little too ST:TNG.


They borrowed from tos as well(the generation ship one).And then there is the black mirror episode.Which actually has the crew NOT preach to the aliens.Which was awesome.The holy book one...I cant say that one borrows from trek.I mean tng and ds9 did infiltration episodes,but not really like that.

But really,its hard not to borrow a plot from old trek,since there is a shitton of old trek.At least when orvile does that they try and improve on it.

As for the last weeks rape drug episode....At least the guy stopped being a massive douche for a bit.But letting him go without a word after that?Not a fan of that.I mean,it IS realistic for a rape victim to just want to deny that the whole thing ever happened,but still that guy deserved a punishment.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:48 pm

The ferengi were introduced in tng as bumbling idiots,and they were atrocious.But in magnificent ferengi,they are bumbling idiots and they are magnificent.The whole episode has no right to be good,and yet it is.I mean,take that little scene where quark and rom accidentally stumble into siskos office.It makes no sense,its filler that easily couldve been cut,its never mentioned again,it impacts nothing,and yet its just so funny.
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John

Re: Star trek

Postby John » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:12 pm

Strictly speaking, the Ferengi were introduced in TNG as a new rival to the Federation, in much the same sort of role played by the Klingons or Romulans in TOS. Unfortunately, no one who watched the show could take them seriously in that role, so the writers made them into comic relief instead. There are a couple of exceptions in TNG, such as the episode that introduced the "Picard Manuever", but they really only serve to prove the rule.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:27 pm

Ah waltz.The episode where dukat went from just a bit delusional to full on psychotic.Props to sisko for managing to stay mostly composed when faced with such a madman.

As for siskos final word "Then you spend some time with dukat and you realize that there is such a thing as completely evil",he is not wrong.Practically every episode where dukat has a bit of screen time shows that he really is evil.His madness simply brought all of his menace fully on top instead of having it slowly bubbling under the surface.And ironically,this happened because he lost someone he actually cared for.Disregarding the whole wanting to kill her himself thing.That happened twice.

Yeah,dukat is a really fascinating creature.
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Sudanna

Re: Star trek

Postby Sudanna » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:07 pm

I'm six episodes into Discovery, and I'm mildly enjoying it. I like the premise and ongoing conflicts, I like that it's slowly becoming more Star Trek(accruing an ensemble cast, elevating that cast to bridge crew, slowly building on the weird SF parts), I like that the weird SF parts seem to be building on each other rather than showing up for an episode - though it could use some of those. I like the characters despite not having had that much time with them yet. A radical-conservative reaction to encroaching globalism(galactism?) being the Klingon's deal is cute. It's just started getting into their stuff. It certainly does seem to be getting stronger with time. The more Abrams-ey weird two-episode intro was nice for what it was but is thankfully a style it seems to be moving away from. I'm not prepared to say it's super good or anything, but it's decent and getting better. I hope it doesn't pull punches on the trainwrecks it's hinted at, I super want to see Lorca to become a treasonous fanatic and Michael to mutiny again. If the show keeps going in the directions it's been going, I'll be happy, and hopefully it goes beyond that.

Side note, I -love- the cheesy alien extras. That cyborg with like five screens on their head in the intro episodes? The best.

EDIT: Side note 2: I appreciate the inclusion of an evil capitalist whose name is literally Mudd. Really following in the footsteps of the Ferengi here. :P
Last edited by Sudanna on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 pm

Nobody expects the starfleet inquisition!Their chief weaponry is surprise,sloan and surprise.

Really,the most amusing thing is that inquisition is followed by the pale moonlight.First being an episode where our protagonists say that the bad guy is bad because they think the ends justifies the means,and the second being an episode where our protagonist tries to justify his actions to himself because of the ends those have accomplished.

Ive defended ds9 before about these things,so I wont repeat that.However,I will mention one other thing that I wasnt fully aware of before:Starfleet has doomed countless people on a bunch of worlds with the peace treaty with the cardassia,basically saying how peace justifies practically any bad thing.So this whole dilemma was debated on trek long before section 31 and vreenak.
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John

Re: Star trek

Postby John » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:56 pm

Daemian Lucifer wrote:Ive defended ds9 before about these things,so I wont repeat that.However,I will mention one other thing that I wasnt fully aware of before:Starfleet has doomed countless people on a bunch of worlds with the peace treaty with the cardassia,basically saying how peace justifies practically any bad thing.So this whole dilemma was debated on trek long before section 31 and vreenak.

I think that's a bit of a stretch there Daemian. Those people chose of their own free will to stay on Cardassian-administered worlds. Starfleet tried to evacuate the planets prior to the handover (see the awkward TNG episode with the planet of the bitter Native Americans) and the colonists refused to leave. Moreover, we don't actually know the full terms of the peace treaty between the Federation and Cardassia, so the Cardassians may welll have made concessions too.
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krellen
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Re: Star trek

Postby krellen » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:55 pm

John wrote:the Cardassians may well have made concessions too.

We know of at least one concession they made: ending the occupation of Bajor and relinquishing control of Terok Nor. We even know at least one Cardassian who did not abandon ceded territory (Garak).
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Ringwraith

Re: Star trek

Postby Ringwraith » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:33 am

Well, it shows one of the Federation's flaws in that they trust the Cardassians to keep up their end up the bargain like they do with theirs, even though almost everyone with any personal experience knows this won't happen.
Hence the Marquis, and this nearly causing a war.
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John

Re: Star trek

Postby John » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:09 am

Ringwraith wrote:Well, it shows one of the Federation's flaws in that they trust the Cardassians to keep up their end up the bargain like they do with theirs, even though almost everyone with any personal experience knows this won't happen.

I wouldn't say that the Federation necessarily trusts the Cardassians. Remember the "four lights" episode? Picard got tortured specifically because Starfleet sent him to investigate the possibility that the Cardassians were up to no good.
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Ringwraith

Re: Star trek

Postby Ringwraith » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:28 am

They like to outwardly appear like they trust everyone at least. They like to seem very welcoming.

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