Movies are cool as well

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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:13 am

Its about cycles,and how mortals are always going to destroy the gods that created them.
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Narratorway
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Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Narratorway » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:29 am

Like I said, I grokked onto that pretty quick. What I'm saying is that when looking at the allegory, not everything is particularly consistent in its...allegorical representation...which kind of muddies the water as to what I'm supposed to take from it.
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Narratorway
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Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Narratorway » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:02 pm

So am I the only one who watches movies anymore? Ah well...

Blade Runner:
It's about a ten minute walk to the local theater from where I live and that's about how much time it took for me to confirm that I didn't like this movie. Not because I think its unnecessary. Point of fact I've never seen the original all the way through that I can recall, which says something about what that film's effect on me has been...which is to say: anemic. So every beef I got in sequel is how it stands on its own...except not.

How to explain this...

You see, the plot is terrible, but also irrelevant and only shows up when it absolutely has to. It's also the part of the film most directly connected to the original and it suffers for it. There's a few distractedly fanfic-esque callback moments the plot brings up that really did not need to be there, and you know its heavy handed when a guy can recognize them even though he doesn't remember much of the original. But take those out and you still have this rote story with melodramatic portents but is so undercooked that it comes off as cartoonish at times, which is some serious tonal whiplash to deal with because this movie is very clearly going and going hard for a very specific tone...except when it doesn't...GAWD this movie.

See, there's little moments that just...don't...work. There's a slur that's introduced early on to give 'flavor' to the setting, but it's distractingly ham-fisted to the point where it feels like it came from a Robocop sequel! Then there's the scene with the zombie hobos with getting shot at from orbit through Google glasses? Whaaaaaaaa?

But the best example of this issue is Harrison Ford, who just visibly doesn't belong here. Every other character in this film - replicant or otherwise - has a very deliberate performance. They're very mechanical - which sounds like a negative - but they're in service to an equally deliberate tone, so even though I say 'mechanical', I mean in the sense that the performances in this film have precision, detail, elegance, style...all varied and nuanced in their own deliberate ways. Except Ford, who just angry grandpas his way through every scene, fidgeting all over the place like he literally wandered onto the set. I can't tell if it's a bad performance per se, but I can tell it doesn't gel with...literally everything else in this movie.

But Gosling does! I said the plot was irrelevant because the real plot of this movie is entirely about him and the consequences of him being a replicant in this world. That isn't a spoiler mind you. The movie reveals it literally in the opening scene. The rest of the 'real' movie is about what it means to be a person who literally exists to be manipulated. The plot has reveals that build him up to be the focal point of everything that's going down, alongside which we see a romance between him and another artificial character and the inevitable culminations of these elements are incredibly effective and absolutely devastating largely thanks to his performance...but then that's it. The movie's over after that point and it just...sits there ending on a 'everything you know is a lie ha ha'. It's unsatisfying to say the least.

There are good parts. It's visually/audibly stunning of course and when it focuses on the REAL plot, it's affecting as hell as Gosling navigates through his identity crisis. But this is a looooong ass movie with suuuuuuper slow pacing, and an uncomfortably amount of it is awkwardly focused a terrible story in order to create consequences that effect the much better story they want to tell.
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Supahewok

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Supahewok » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:34 pm

All I really wanna know is if the movie gives a definitive answer to whether Harrison Ford's character (Deckard?) was a replicant all along. I don't care either way, but I remember there being a big debate about it in my freshman English course.
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Narratorway
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Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Narratorway » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:45 pm

Yes. I mean, it's not so crass as to just outright say it, but there's a scene with dialogue from Jared Leto that pretty much confirms it. Oh! Right! FUCKING JARED LETO!

Holy shit, he aint in this movie much but fuck my balls he is a big ol'e slice of terrible every time he is! He's in full 'douchebag performance artist mode' with this bizarre affect to his voice that's like this really bad impression of Jeffrey Combs. You could 1 to 1 this performance into an old SNL 'Sprockets' skit and have NO CLUE is was intended to be taken seriously.
Last edited by Narratorway on Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ringwraith

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Ringwraith » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:48 pm

Supahewok wrote:All I really wanna know is if the movie gives a definitive answer to whether Harrison Ford's character (Deckard?) was a replicant all along. I don't care either way, but I remember there being a big debate about it in my freshman English course.

The story behind it is that he was never meant to be, and some slight miscommunication between writers led to Ridley Scott thinking it was a great idea and just adopting it mid-production, which no-one, writers or actors, else agreed to. Many of them saying it completely undercut a lot of the core narrative themes about the character.
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Narratorway
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Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Narratorway » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:55 pm

I will admit upon reflection it's not really clear. Leto's dialogue implies it absolutely, but Ford's actions afterwards I think are meant to refute it. Not that I cared by that point. It was a raw 'plot' scene w/o Gosling even in it, so it was firmly in the terrible part of the movie I didn't care about.
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Supahewok

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Supahewok » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:00 pm

Ringwraith wrote:
Supahewok wrote:All I really wanna know is if the movie gives a definitive answer to whether Harrison Ford's character (Deckard?) was a replicant all along. I don't care either way, but I remember there being a big debate about it in my freshman English course.

The story behind it is that he was never meant to be, and some slight miscommunication between writers led to Ridley Scott thinking it was a great idea and just adopting it mid-production, which no-one, writers or actors, else agreed to. Many of them saying it completely undercut a lot of the core narrative themes about the character.

That's interesting to know, but authorial intent (even if it's from multiple authors) doesn't count for much in academia. Or at least not in that class.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby The Rocketeer » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:03 pm

Ringwraith wrote:The story behind it is that he was never meant to be, and some slight miscommunication between writers led to Ridley Scott thinking it was a great idea and just adopting it mid-production, which no-one, writers or actors, else agreed to. Many of them saying it completely undercut a lot of the core narrative themes about the character.
To clarify, Scott decided that during the shooting of the original Blade Runner, not the new one; he's had it firmly in his head since then, and seems to double down on it harder whenever anyone tries to convince him it doesn't work for the story. So the new one was definitely written with Deckard conceived as a replicant from the outset.

Scott and Harrison Ford bickered bitterly about this point of contention, and knowing Ford, I'd be shocked if he didn't phone in his obligatory appearance in the new movie just to spite Scott.
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grahams_xwing
Location: Mansfield, UK

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby grahams_xwing » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:13 pm

Blade Runner - I concur with the Narratorway review above almost 100%.
Ford sticks out like a sore thumb, the plot is oddly disjointed and paced so unevenly I have no idea how Goslings Character worked out where to find Ford's.
The 'sex' scene - just no - no need. I get its about the role of relationships in humanising someone but still..... plus I'd be interested to know how much screen time was taken up by someones hands inching towards someone else's face.

I came away frustrated that the 'main character's' story arc doesn't really resolve, and the 'twist' (of sorts) of the main story line is so obscured that it's not hugely obvious it is the main thread until the final act. This leaves very little time for payoff - and indeed, i had no emotional connection to the characters by the time the credits rolled.

One thing I would disagree on is the praise **BWWAAAAAAA** for the *BWAAAAAAA* score and the *BWWAAAAAAA*sound direction. I wish we could go back to a cinematic world before *BWWWAAAAAA* Inception and it's dramatic *BWWAAAAA* interupts, especially when, as in this case, they are used as semi jump scares - man alive does this film like to jump you with unexpected sound. The whole world is inhabited by strange groans and background noises, there's a very alien feel to alot of the soundscapes but the volume jumps are a bit OTT.

The visuals are stunning though, and the dystopian future on display is rich and intriguing. I love the implied energy shortages, low lights, all very localised to where people are moving around, lights tracking around people moving, the only consistently bright areas seem to be the huge ad billboards.

Odd idosyncratic film. Cinema Sins is gonna have a fucking field day with this one.
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grahams_xwing
Location: Mansfield, UK

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby grahams_xwing » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:16 pm

Narratorway wrote:I will admit upon reflection it's not really clear. Leto's dialogue implies it absolutely, but Ford's actions afterwards I think are meant to refute it.


Did it - I missed that in the wierdness/badness obviously.
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Sudanna

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Sudanna » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:06 pm

I saw the new Blade Runner too, and, man, is it overstylized. Like, if original Blade Runner is noir, this is Underworld-level high gothiness pretending it's noir. Blind Jared Leto lives in a really fuckin echoey stone pyramid filled with water and makes out with replicant women while cutting out their barren wombs cuz he wants them to be fertile. So it's another mark in Leto's streak. But he's honestly not as far from the central aesthetic of the movie as one might like. There are some neat ideas that shine through sometimes, and small flashes of the first Blade Runner(the spirit of the first Blade Runner, not the cheesy callbacks), and it's often well-made, but wow is it kind of broken. There's a number of plot holes, and yeah, building the plot around Harrison Ford was a baaad call, but really the problem is how hard it tries to be tidily arbitrarily messianically aesthetic and focused on a small number of not very good characters to the point of disengaging from the world to make for room for them.

There was a point halfway through where I thought that Gosling was the born replicant, and the guy he killed in the opening of the movie was his dad but neither of them knew it, and that would have been comparatively very neat, but it goes a million miles an hour in a different direction and it's Not Good.
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Charnel Mouse
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Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Charnel Mouse » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:15 pm

Reading other people complain about Blade Runner is warming my heart.
Narratorway wrote:I will admit upon reflection it's not really clear. Leto's dialogue implies it absolutely, but Ford's actions afterwards I think are meant to refute it.

I remember that dialogue being pretty ambiguous, presumably to make Deckard uneasy / give the fans something to be excited about apart from arbitrary breasts.
Steve C

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Steve C » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:28 pm

I had intended to watch this Bladerunner. Given the comments here I've decided not to.
Keep taking one for the team guys.
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Sudanna

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Sudanna » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:59 pm

Bladerunner addendum: the soundtrack is the worst. Blaring Inception horns over everything, even to the point of drowning out dialogue.
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grahams_xwing
Location: Mansfield, UK

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby grahams_xwing » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:04 pm

Sudanna wrote:Bladerunner addendum: the soundtrack is the worst. Blaring Inception horns over everything, even to the point of drowning out dialogue.

BWAAAAAHHHHHH
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Retsam

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Retsam » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:29 pm

I'm surprised for so much negativity on the Blade Runner sequel; I'm not planning to see it (haven't actually seen the original), but the overall reception I've seen has been positive. For example there was a Reddit AMA from a someone who wrote a book on Blade Runner (and did their PhD thesis on Batman), and they really liked the sequel.
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Ringwraith

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Ringwraith » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:26 pm

This thread has been the most negative responses I've seen of it, thus far, without really looking for opinions on purpose.
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Narratorway
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Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Narratorway » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:09 pm

I can get why. It's not good, but the way in which it aint good is complete outside the spectrum of how a Blade Runner sequel would be expected to be bad, i.e. tone deaf. It very clearly 'gets' what Blade Runner is about and is incredibly well made and those alone I think are enough to hide a lot of its deficiencies for people.
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Narratorway
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Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Narratorway » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:15 pm

I get down to LA and settle in just long enough to find out that there's a animation film festival goin down and I finally have the cash to see some of the films they're screening. What I saw was Big Fish and Begonia, a Chinese production that desperately desperately wants to be a Studio Ghibli film. Story-wise, it doesn't get there but daaaaaayumm does it look good! They pull out all the stops for this thing and man is it hard to not be affected by the sheer spectacle...but it's got its issues. One of the main characters is a dolphin, which they draw with 'anime' eyes and it looks silly as hell. The melodrama driving everything is... melodramatic. It doesn't hit full camp at any point, which is damned impressive considering, but it still has a moment that made the audience roar with laughter - my self included - when it became cringingly clear that was not the intent. But that was the only anamoly and the audience applauded when it ended, so I'd say it came out on top. If nothing else, it is absolutely stunning to watch.
Steve C

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Steve C » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:32 pm

Yeah that's one of those sterotypical anime things- melodrama that is supposed to be serious and just... isn't. I remember watching Paranoia Agent in a theater. It's the big climatic scene of the big climatic episode. Serious stuff. Then there is this blood splatter that was just ridiculous. I had a huge belly laugh. I was the only one in the theater to do so too. I don't know why others give anime a pass on that stuff. If something is melodramatic to the point of absurdity, it's absurd, and funny.
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grahams_xwing
Location: Mansfield, UK

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby grahams_xwing » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:25 pm

I'm 2/3 of the way through the Dark Tower and am posting already...

I was worried that the casting of Idris Elba as Roland was going to detract from the overall story of what is an epic saga of novels.
I needn't have worried.... The absolute butcher job they did to the content of the 8 books, leaves the main characters being misused, miss written or completely ignored.
They fail to set up The Gunslinger, the Man In Black gets centre stage, Jake is unrecognisable.

So what's left? The Tower, the beams, 3 (yes 3) whole characters, one location on earth, the vague fantasy premise, and the 'sugar' skit.

I'd be interested in the opinion of someone who'd never heard of the series before, but as a massive fan of the books I'm literally having to ignore the fact I kinda know whats going on to get anything out of it.
Tripe.
1/5
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grahams_xwing
Location: Mansfield, UK

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby grahams_xwing » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:36 pm

grahams_xwing wrote:I'm 2/3 of the way through the Dark Tower and am posting already...

I was worried that the casting of Idris Elba as Roland was going to detract from the overall story of what is an epic saga of novels.
I needn't have worried.... The absolute butcher job they did to the content of the 8 books, leaves the main characters being misused, miss written or completely ignored.
They fail to set up The Gunslinger, the Man In Black gets centre stage, Jake is unrecognisable.

So what's left? The Tower, the beams, 3 (yes 3) whole characters, one location on earth, the vague fantasy premise, and the 'sugar' skit.

I'd be interested in the opinion of someone who'd never heard of the series before, but as a massive fan of the books I'm literally having to ignore the fact I kinda know whats going on to get anything out of it.
Tripe.
1/5


Oh and as for the argument about the books describing a cycle and that this is a different one, not the one in the books - Piss off - they even forgot that element. The script/screenwriter OBVIOUSLY never read the books. Someone read a synopsis of the series, knew they could make bank off of King's name, and ran with it.

(I finished it - i have no idea why)
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Supahewok

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby Supahewok » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:42 pm

Not necessarily. The machine that Hollywood puts scripts through is a cruel, cruel mistress.

I'm curious why you thought Elba's casting would detract from the film. He seems popular, but all I've seen him is in the Thor movies, where his character is pretty one-note, and Luther, where I hated him for his fucking mumbling slurring that I could only half understand.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Movies are cool as well

Postby The Rocketeer » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:22 pm

Idris Elba is a very talented actor, but recently his parts haven't given him much to work with. Case in point: Dark Tower, obviously, but also Heimdall in the Marvel movies and the villain in Star Trek Beyond, who was thoroughly underwritten and seemed to suffer from bad voice direction in particular.

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