Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

User avatar
Ringwraith

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Ringwraith » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:02 pm

Restricting yourself completely to one or the other has its disadvantages, that's for sure.
User avatar
Thomas

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Thomas » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:46 pm

I think what makes me shy away from anything criticising the state of 'modern' RPGs is that I've now lived long enough to see the cycle repeat. The things people were saying when KOTOR and Mass Effect were new are now the things they're saying now about how 'modern' RPGs are worse than old ones like KOTOR and Mass Effect.

To be fair I think RPG Codex are a little more consistent than most and they're probably ready to talk down KOTOR any day of the week. But still, the rationalisation changes but the motives feel the same.

And it does require a certain degree of selectiveness. The phenomenal improvement from Witcher 1 to Witcher 2 to Witcher 3 doesn't count. And Pillars of Eternity being more interesting than Icewind Dale doesn't count. And Wasteland 2 sometimes counts and sometimes doesn't count, and anyway you can forgive Wasteland 1 because it was a 'product of its time' but Wasteland 2 is...

This doesn't really have anything to do with the contents of the RPG Codex article, just why the first line of that article was screaming at my brain to check-out instead of treating the article with the respect it warrants.
User avatar
Daemian Lucifer

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:06 pm

Banner saga 3 is having a kickstarter,and its mostly reached its goals.Not surprising,considering the very positive reception of the previous two.

What is interesting though is their reasoning for why they are doing it for this one,and didnt do one for 2.Apparently,2 did not make as much money as 1,not because it was worse,but because it was less known.So it seems that apart from giving you funding,kickstarter works as a great marketing tool as well.
User avatar
Sudanna

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Sudanna » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:13 pm

I'm 22. Liking text isn't a matter of nostalgia, cuz it can't be.

If you want me to take more seriously something that doesn't deserve it, here: Almost every criticism in this article is a matter of personal taste, or glances off of a real problem while getting misdirected.

Not wanting to receive any information that doesn't immediately pertain to the direct experience of the player: personal taste. Discounting reactivity taking place in an ending or epilogue: personal taste. Caring very selectively that a fictional setting hew very closely or be functionally identical to its stated inspirations (or at least the ones you specifically like): personal taste. Not liking that a work seems to display endorsement of opinions you disagree with: personal taste on a case-by-case basis as well as generally. The point at which a writing style becomes too elaborate: personal taste. Disliking modern humanities or feminism or postmodernism as influences on a story: personal taste, and I'll be very generous by not taking this one any further. Disliking some bad writing and holding other bad writing as exemplary: weird personal taste. Preferring traditional video games to modern interactive stories: personal taste.

Some of these personal tastes are shared by other people. That they've been talking about these sort of things for a while is neither news to me nor relevant. That those people enjoy them and want to push for them is fine. Presenting them as Problems With The Industry is something else, however in keeping it is with the atmosphere of RPG Codex.

Some of these tastes skirt real issues, for example the problem with lore, but ultimately just land in "I like it this way and not that way and so should everyone else". One could make real points about the use of lore, or the corporate success inertia of people like Avellone, or how studios will generally not take seriously or engage with their writers' work until after the fact, or indeed specific presentations of ideology. This self-proclaimed rant does not. It does things adjacent to those things and hopes to become correct by association.

I disagree with example after example, so I won't bother with those.

daemian this guy literally has a section about these goshdang kid developers not respecting their elders come ooooon
Last edited by Sudanna on Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Thomas

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Thomas » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:31 pm

Daemian Lucifer wrote:Banner saga 3 is having a kickstarter,and its mostly reached its goals.Not surprising,considering the very positive reception of the previous two.

What is interesting though is their reasoning for why they are doing it for this one,and didnt do one for 2.Apparently,2 did not make as much money as 1,not because it was worse,but because it was less known.So it seems that apart from giving you funding,kickstarter works as a great marketing tool as well.


According to Watson, 1,000 new people play the first game every single day, and "the funnel" from there into the sequel is clearly observable in Stoic's data. "Seeing this funnel from The Banner Saga really woke us up to the necessity of getting people through the first game," he says. "We've actually spent the last few weeks working on an update to The Banner Saga that basically tunes that battle, so that people can get through."

This might be the most interesting thing I've read all day.

(Well that's a lie, this ONS dashboard on the health of the UK economy was the most interesting thing I've read all day, but that's because I'm a stats nerd)
User avatar
SpammyV
Contact:

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby SpammyV » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:38 pm

I mean I'd replay and finish The Banner Saga this time if they fixed the problem where their system is so weighted in favor of giants that humans are a liability and everyone's usefulness drops to nearly zero the instant that they're scratched.
User avatar
Sudanna

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Sudanna » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:54 pm

I actually played the entire Banner Saga up to the final battle on Hard, and couldn't beat it. So I uninstalled it. And many months later, when TBS2 came out, I replayed the whole thing on Easy, cuz I remembered that fight. And I'm playing TBS2 on Easy right now, cuz I remembered that fight. And now it's too easy and not as fun as it could be. :/
User avatar
Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Trix2000 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:29 pm

The problem I had with TBS is that while the combat system had some decent strategy and mechanics, it... just didn't feel all that fun or powerful to play with. Maybe that was partially the intent (bleak situations and all), but that would imply the game isn't much for me anyways. I'm not saying I need to be destroying everything without thought and all, but the fact that I didn't have any real moments of "HA! My strategy worked flawlessly!" speaks to what may be the problem (or maybe I'm just not good at it?).

Could also be because I didn't feel I had enough tactical options. There's some, but it feels like they have more to do with who you bring... and things like giants taking up so much space kind-of limit the possibilities of what you can do.

The health/damage system sounds good on paper, but in practice I don't like it either - probably much the same reason I wouldn't like my character in, say, and FPS to start limping around the moment they got shot once. I did like the paradigm between dealing armor/health damage, but it did not improve the base issue I had there.

(Let's just ignore the whole alternating turns thing, too, which made absolutely no sense to me to include. A single remaining enemy should be a sitting duck, not a whirlwind of action.)

I did get through TBS, though. It was challenging, but I pushed it to the end because I did find some of the writing interesting. But I barely spared a second glance to TBS2... because the enthusiasm is just not there. It didn't grip me enough to want me to play more.
User avatar
Retsam

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Retsam » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:14 pm

SpammyV wrote:I mean I'd replay and finish The Banner Saga this time if they fixed the problem where their system is so weighted in favor of giants that humans are a liability and everyone's usefulness drops to nearly zero the instant that they're scratched.


I don't find the system to be particularly weighted towards Varl. Yes, having some heavy hitting tanks is undoubtedly useful: but being large is largely a downside, not a benefit: they're much harder to maneuver, and can get in the way of your other characters, their size means that can be attacked by more characters at once. And there's just more options for human units: archers being an obvious one, but I got a lot of good use out of the humans, too: Rook, Ludin, there's a kid who I got killed who I've heard is great, etc.


---

As for the more general combat system stuff, I've put my thoughts in long form before; but it boils down to: I think the system is interesting, I think it works strategically, but I don't think the "game feel" is right: the correct way to play the system feels like gaming the system, which hurts the immersion, but I really enjoyed it despite all that.
User avatar
Humanoid

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Humanoid » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:36 am

The EU have launched an antitrust investigation into Steam region locking. Hit 'em hard boys.
User avatar
Thomas

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Thomas » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:23 am

This is probably too long to be useful, but inControl of Starcraft fame has made an oral history of his experience of the death of the Evil Genius' original organisation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNJOr9iJpcM

tl;dr the investment of Twitch/Amazon in Evil Genius was a strategically bad move that no-one saw until too late. Twitch/Amazon wanted to expand esports so it made sense they'd want to put a stake in a team of their own, but that instantly put a target on that team. How were they going to avoid giving biased treatment to their own team when Twitch was running the premier income source of esports? And so the big names (Cloud9) were forcing Twitch/Amazon to abandon expansion with Evil Genius and that slowly bled EG dry.
User avatar
Retsam

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Retsam » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:31 pm

Looks like Overwatch is adding a server browser. This seems like it could go a long way to supporting the "FPS Server as a virtual hangout space" idea that Campster talked about in his Overwatch and TF2 video. It certainly won't change everything he says in that video, but I do think it'll largely blunt the edge of that distinction.

... so twentysided server when?
User avatar
Lachlan the Sane
Location: I come from the land down under, where women blow and men chunder

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Lachlan the Sane » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:30 pm

Retsam wrote:Looks like Overwatch is adding a server browser. This seems like it could go a long way to supporting the "FPS Server as a virtual hangout space" idea that Campster talked about in his Overwatch and TF2 video. It certainly won't change everything he says in that video, but I do think it'll largely blunt the edge of that distinction.

... so twentysided server when?

I'd be happy to do some Twenty-Sided Overwatch hangouts, but we'd need to decide upon a region and some basic rules. How many shenanigans do we want?

EDIT: Rule #1 of the server must be "Fuck 2CP".
User avatar
Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Trix2000 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:26 am

Lachlan the Mad wrote:I'd be happy to do some Twenty-Sided Overwatch hangouts, but we'd need to decide upon a region and some basic rules. How many shenanigans do we want?

I'd be up for it too.

And the answer is, of course, ALL the shenanigans ALL MERCY MAX ULT CHARGE GO.
User avatar
Humanoid

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Humanoid » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:18 am

I don't know anything about Overwatch but as of yesterday I could buy it for about 250,000 in WoW gold, heh. Puts some perspective on the value of ingame currency (I have about 2M gold).
User avatar
Lachlan the Sane
Location: I come from the land down under, where women blow and men chunder

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Lachlan the Sane » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:28 am

Trix2000 wrote:
Lachlan the Mad wrote:I'd be happy to do some Twenty-Sided Overwatch hangouts, but we'd need to decide upon a region and some basic rules. How many shenanigans do we want?

I'd be up for it too.

And the answer is, of course, ALL the shenanigans ALL MERCY MAX ULT CHARGE GO.

I would love it if you could set the game so each team is assigned 6 of a random hero. 6 Junkrat v 6 Mercy! 6 Bastion v 6 Reinhardt! Sure, it'd be unbalanced as hell, but SHENANIGANS!

Humanoid wrote:I don't know anything about Overwatch but as of yesterday I could buy it for about 250,000 in WoW gold, heh. Puts some perspective on the value of ingame currency (I have about 2M gold).

If your computer can run it, you should take it, that's a good deal :)
User avatar
Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Trix2000 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:15 am

Lachlan the Mad wrote:I would love it if you could set the game so each team is assigned 6 of a random hero. 6 Junkrat v 6 Mercy! 6 Bastion v 6 Reinhardt! Sure, it'd be unbalanced as hell, but SHENANIGANS!
With the way he was talking, I wonder if in fact that IS possible, or at least will be at some point as they update it. I mean, they were talking about some very specific stuff you could tweak and whatnot (though I don't know how random heroes will be implemented there).

...All D.Va max Ult charge and melee only? yes, even out of mech
User avatar
Thomas

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Thomas » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:12 pm

Valve's stock has really sunk in recent years. Not to depths, but they've definitely descended from the heavens.

Gabe Newell has made comments about not liking console walled-gardens, similar to comments he's made in the past (hint: Valve are marketing a big VR push and accounts suggest that PSVR sales are stomping over the Vive at the moment)


There's nothing really new about the statement, just the standard Valve stuff they've said before, except a bit less true because Sony and Microsoft both had goes at cleaning up their act with the indie boom. What's interesting is normally when Gabe said it, you'd get a typical PC Master Race response (because, to be fair, a lot of those criticisms are pretty valid).

This time around though, no-one really seems to be buying it. Journalists point out that the comments seem outdated, comments threads are full of "Valve don't seem to like making PC games either" jokes.

On ArsTechnica the promoted comment is:
"Valve still frustrated with anything that takes any amount of effort at all while not making obscene amount of money for themselves" sounds about right, yeah.


And this comment has got net positive votes:
I used to think very highly of Valve but they have lost so much good will from me due to their behaviour over the past several years.

I know this is near blasphemy to say but I actually view EA more favourably than I do Valve now.

Think about how crazy that is. Someone is overall getting liked for saying they prefer EA to Valve.

Anyway I find that interesting, because Valve are such a big part of gaming culture and Counterstrike and DOTA 2 are both massive successes. But if you want some more substantial news, Valve have announced they are making 3 'real' games for VR right now. It's Valve so I expect they're going to be fantastic. Interestingly, I haven't heard of Valve buying up any VR developers recently, so these might actually be some of Valve's first unique IPs ever. And it's Valve, so they could become genre defining for VR.
User avatar
4th Dimension

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby 4th Dimension » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:43 pm

Thomas wrote: And it's Valve, so they could become genre defining for VR.

In about a decade when their QA team finally deems it suitable enough ;)

I am not really that suprised by the EA/Valve comment. After all as far as I know the majority of the games are on Steam, and Steam is THE store of choice to get games for a LAARGE portion of the gamers. Meanwhile what does EA even publish these days? Those sport franchises, Bioware things and DICE games, right? While the lot of them are BIG their impact on time spent with them is nowhere near the games on Steam. Which means any time Valve fucks up their customer relations ti will impact a much wider audience than an EA fuckup. And on top of it all you kind of expect and are not surprised by such from EA which hurts Valve even more.
User avatar
Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Trix2000 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:13 pm

Yeah, Valve's built themselves up as the paragon of digital distribution so the flaws they do have become that much more visible ("WHY AREN'T YOU PERFECT?!?!!"). With someone like EA you just kind-of expect and gloss over irritations, and any time they make a stride forward it's suddenly a big deal.

Human perception is weird.
User avatar
Daemian Lucifer

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:40 pm

Trix2000 wrote:("WHY AREN'T YOU PERFECT?!?!!")


Oh please.No one wanted steam to be perfect.A lot is excused for it,even now.But some stuff,like making sure that the game they are selling actually works,are simply inexcusable.
User avatar
Thomas

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Thomas » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:15 pm

I think the lack of single-player games has hurt them too. And whilst people have probably forgotten about the paid mods scandal (and that itself was a sign of how much Valve's stock has fallen), there's probably some residual feeling
User avatar
Thomas

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Thomas » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:48 am

I had no idea the first two episodes of the Walking Dead 3 are already out
User avatar
Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Trix2000 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:09 pm

Daemian Lucifer wrote:Oh please.No one wanted steam to be perfect.A lot is excused for it,even now.But some stuff,like making sure that the game they are selling actually works,are simply inexcusable.
I was being facetious, given that a lot of the past perception on Valve/Steam was along the lines of "Gaben can do no wrong."

I actually think the downturn on sales has been a large part of what's changed people's minds - both in that other places are doing them (like GoG) and that the recent sales have been fairly low-key by comparison (no daily deals, less popular or prominent gamification measures). People just aren't as engaged or enthused about Valve now that they're no longer the exclusive source of ridiculous deals they once were, and it may cause them not to gloss over Steam's flaws so much.

And to be fair to Valve, they have an incredibly difficult challenge being the largest and most prominent online store still - particularly when it comes to curation. Making sure every game they have works is challenging when they sell thousands and thousands of them (and people keep pressuring them to open the doors more) - though that's not to say anything about how well they're actually handling this issue.
User avatar
Daemian Lucifer

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:14 pm

[quote="Trix2000"] they have an incredibly difficult challenge being the largest and most prominent online store still /quote]

Which at the same time gives them the most money to deal with it.But even ignoring that,its their own fault.They chose to let everyone put anything on there,without any forethought about what to do if someone puts something there that doesnt work,or is stolen,or uses copyrighted stuff,or is a scam,...

Return to “Videogames”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests