Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

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Ringwraith

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Ringwraith » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:03 pm

It's the price of accessories which is just high (including charging huge amounts for spare docking stations when they're nothing more than cable tidies in a plastic stand).
Oh, and the gall of trying to charge for an online service, which any details are incredibly stingy and considering their past history of online features, it's going to be terrible anyway.
Plus the Miiverse won't come over, Splatoon's plaza will never be the same.
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Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Trix2000 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:50 pm

Ringwraith wrote:Oh, and the gall of trying to charge for an online service, which any details are incredibly stingy and considering their past history of online features, it's going to be terrible anyway.
I would be 'fine' considering the other major consoles already do this... if it weren't for just how poor Nintendo's online services have always been.

If they can make an actually decent online service, then I'd be (relatively) okay with the fee. But as you said, past history does not bode well on this matter.

I do wonder how much they're planning to charge for it, and whether it will be equivalent or cheaper (or more expensive if they're that crazy) than their competitors.
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Thomas

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Thomas » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:55 pm

Everything about the Switch is expensive, it's one of the things that make Nintendo look arrogant here. This launch is a huge gamble, Nintendo have a massive bank, they should be throwing money in to get support. Instead the console doesn't come bundled with a game. They charge a crudload of money for what should be a mini-game packin. They charge even more money for games that are so old even their next-gen rerelease is out of date. Their accessories cost a lot and they're a lot of them, and half of them are required for a single game or feature. Their console is expensive. Nintendo definitely isn't throwing money at publishers.

Even if it comes off, I'll be a little annoyed that their pricehiking paid off.

If Nintendo hadn't managed to sell the Wii and Amiibo's it would be plain crazy. As it is, it's possibly crazy.
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Retsam

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Retsam » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:31 pm

The "free game" policy for their online-service (which seems poised to continue the Nintendo tradition of being about a console generation behind everyone else), is probably the biggest bit of "arrogance". A NES/SNES game that you can play for a month, then need to pay for if you want to keep playing. Just the fact that they're only giving out 20+ year old games is a bit of a snub, but then the fact that you have to pay for them after a month just makes it feel like it's an advertising campaign for their (arguably overpriced) Virtual Console masquerading as a perk.

Compared to something like PSN or XBL which gives away modern (albeit usually somewhat second-tier) games like Rocket League, and you can play them for as long as you're subscribed to the service, AND they weren't arriving "late to the party" like Nintendo is. They showed up late to the party, realized they were supposed to bring a gift, and pulled out a coupon book for their shop. They somehow managed to pick a gift that felt worse than if they had just not brought anything.
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SpammyV
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Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby SpammyV » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:29 pm

But if it's not geoing to be region locked then I hope that Banpresto makes some Super Robot Wars games for the Switch. Right now they're doing English translations for games, but only to be sold in the Asia region. For sale in Malaysia or Signapore. Because they can't legally import them into the West, except for the OG series where they could but don't because mismanagement and laziness.

But basically if the steps to play an English SRW game went from buying a Signapore PS3 and ordering the game imported to buying a regular Switch and just importing the game, I'd be happy.

Or they could just start selling the games in the West again. That'd be nice. I think the market's there for niche Japanese games.
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Ringwraith

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Ringwraith » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:18 am

Trix2000 wrote:
Ringwraith wrote:Oh, and the gall of trying to charge for an online service, which any details are incredibly stingy and considering their past history of online features, it's going to be terrible anyway.
I would be 'fine' considering the other major consoles already do this... if it weren't for just how poor Nintendo's online services have always been.

If they can make an actually decent online service, then I'd be (relatively) okay with the fee. But as you said, past history does not bode well on this matter.

I do wonder how much they're planning to charge for it, and whether it will be equivalent or cheaper (or more expensive if they're that crazy) than their competitors.

Honestly, I take umbrage with any of the consoles charging for online, but Sony's is the best of the lot, and the offering from Nintendo, even on paper, is terrible.
Really, getting to rent a single ROM file of their back catalogue for a month? Really?
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Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Trix2000 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:23 pm

Ringwraith wrote:Honestly, I take umbrage with any of the consoles charging for online, but Sony's is the best of the lot, and the offering from Nintendo, even on paper, is terrible.
Really, getting to rent a single ROM file of their back catalogue for a month? Really?

I can't disagree with that - paying for online services seems a little odd when you consider it's not a thing on PC (nor will it be, given the circumstances... ignoring basic internet costs of course which you'd pay anyways). Free games at least make the payment seem less problematic, as then it feels like you're actually getting something worthwhile for the money.

I'm not even sure why Nintendo thinks keeping their free offerings monthly is a good idea. I mean, on the one hand, a person could conceivably play through each title within the month easily and be done with it... but on the other hand, that would imply there's little point to restricting their availability in the first place - they're not likely to get many people buying again afterward. As an advertisement for virtual console games, this seems mostly useless while simultaneously throwing away customer goodwill over the policy.

Unless the service is dirt cheap (unlikely) and really good (also unlikely), I don't see the policy going well... to say the least. I hopeit will be learning experience for Nintendo and they might adjust things to be more consumer-friendly, but my gut is telling me they won't and they'll get enough people to buy in anyways because they're Nintendo. They'll muddle along wondering why things aren't taking off, when the answers should be obvious...

It all just speaks to how risk-adverse Nintendo seems to be, which is funny considering they've historically been the innovative oddball of the lot. They like to make these weird designs which sound interesting on paper, but they don't seem willing enough to commit to them so they'll take off. Might be a cultural thing, might not.

More and more it feels like the Wii was an anomaly.
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mwchase
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Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby mwchase » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:55 pm

Maybe they've got different people steering the priorities for the different features, and from a PR perspective, they're just trying to pretend to be cohesive.

There's also the "they're a toy company" thought. If they are using that philosophy, then it sort of "makes sense" to take risks on hardware design while being conservative with services. I don't have a good picture of what it's like where Lego and other toy companies are trying to get into video games, but it sounds like the same kind of uncertainty and confusion. A further implication would be that they won't get out of hardware. Even if Nintendo stopped making consoles, there'd still be all kinds of weird peripherals that slot controllers into them or whatever.
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Thomas

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Thomas » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:23 pm

The expensive accessories feel very 'toy company'
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Retsam

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Retsam » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:58 pm

Nintendo was a gambling company before they were a toy company, and their last few console releases have sure felt like gambles.
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Thomas

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Thomas » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:19 pm

Randy Pitchford on Borderlands 3 coming to the Switch
I do not see that as happening. We were talking to Nintendo, but that stopped for some reason. They have other priorities.

https://twitter.com/DuvalMagic/status/8 ... 2691176449
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Wide And Nerdy

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Wide And Nerdy » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:26 pm

In spite of all of this, I find myself really liking Reggie Fils-Aime. He looks Big Business but the moment he starts talking, he injects as much fun as Nintendo will permit into his presentation.

He had a really cute interview with Pro Jared where they'd switch sides and took turns asking each other questions. It was still a bit corporate but it was fun and he let ProJared take a potshot at him (poking fun at one of the Zelda titles and Metroid Other M.) PJ looked so nervous and for good reason. Reggie looked gigantic standing next to him, like he could snap PJ like a twig.

He mentioned going back on Jimmy Fallon's show at some point to challenge him to Mario Kart. I have to say, watching Fallon geek out over the Switch and Super Mario Run and Shigeru Miyamoto was the first time I've ever liked him. The guy has no talent but I guess I can see a bit more why people like him.
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Andrew

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Andrew » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:35 am

For anyone who enjoyed Long War for Xcom, Long War for Xcom 2 is now available created by the same people but in conjunction with Fireaxis.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... =844674609

Hopefully it's as good as the first one because that represented 100's of hours of gameplay!
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The Rocketeer

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby The Rocketeer » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:43 am

Wow, already?

Two weeks ago, I read their "press release," which was nothing more than the words "Long War 2." I took that to mean, as it almost invariably does, that the mod would be a long time in the making yet, and that that was the community's signal to expect vague, sporadic progress updates for at least several months.

Not so for Pavonis, I guess. Knowing the first one (by reputation), they're going to keep expanding, refining, and changing it for the foreseeable future, but a release is a welcome surprise. Well, it is for people that, you know, own XCOM 2, unlike me. I'm mostly just whetting my appetite for the inevitable after-action reports it will generate.
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Thomas

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Thomas » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:49 pm

Demos are returning (slightly). There isn't really any news for this, but Mass Effect Andromeda is letting EA Access owners play a 10 hour demo, Kingdom Hearts 2.8 has an additional section which is like a taste of Kingdom Hearts 3, Final Fantasy XV had some real demos that some people got to play and that weird not-really-a-demo Platinum Demo tech-demo business.

As well as that, there have been some high profile demo releases on the PS4, namely the Nier: Automata demo and the Gravity Rush 2 demo.

It seems like they're trying to do the new wave of demos differently though. Demos mostly went away because they were expensive in development time and there was no evidence they were leading to increased sales, and a bad demo could drive people away whilst a good demo could sometimes satisfy people enough they didn't feel the need to buy the game (happened to me once or twice). With the press often getting early access to games (presumably in demo form), the tech reason seems to have gone away, and a lot of modern demos seem to be more time limited. They appear on the store for a time frame and disappear or are available just before launch, or if you're a member of some reward scheme etc.
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Ringwraith

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Ringwraith » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:58 pm

The limited time one is more frequent to drum up some publicity, and also some mass-number stress testing.
Nioh actually has had some significant balance changes on its "alpha/beta" demos based on feedback.
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Humanoid

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Humanoid » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:39 am

Paying to access demos, classic EA there.
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lurkey

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby lurkey » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:30 am

RPG Codex has a quite interesting editorial on writing in RPGs.
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Sudanna

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Sudanna » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:23 pm

as with everything on RPG Codex, it can be paraphrased by "i am old and do not like change in personal, recreational, or cultural contexts, here are some half-assed rationalizations about why feeling that way is objectively right."
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Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Trix2000 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:00 pm

To me it sounds more like the guy doesn't recognize all the practical difficulties and roadblocks that go into writing for videogames these days (or in general, really). A lot of talk about 'lazy' writing, when I suspect the issue in most cases is more of a problem with resources and time constraints than anything, and writers having to use tricks to make things work within the budget. That's not to say he's completely wrong that this can lead to problems, but I think he's playing the 'writers today are hacks' card way too hard. At the very least, he's downplaying how much of a factor resources are on how writing turns out in the final product.

Plus I do have to agree that his perspective on writing is fairly narrow. Some of the problems he lists (particularly for me, the bit on extra lore) seem more like aspects of a game geared towards different people. I for one enjoy reading more about a world, even if it doesn't really impact the story much... am I alone on this? Why is it necessarily a bad thing? I get where he's coming from to a point, but it strikes me too much as "stories should be told in one way or they won't work."

Nalyd wrote:as with everything on RPG Codex, it can be paraphrased by "i am old and do not like change in personal, recreational, or cultural contexts, here are some half-assed rationalizations about why feeling that way is objectively right."
There's definitely an element of this here. He might touch on some potential issues, but I don't think the stuff he provides (particularly ones drawn from the past) are anything like a useful answer. Getting some nostalgia-goggle vibes as well.

Also...

Article wrote: “the writing in this game is so good, it’s like a book!” -> “no, it’s actually pretty bad” -> “well, duh, it’s game writing, all of it is bad by default, so shut up and stop making stupid comparisons to books and shit!”
...Does anyone actually say this sort of thing?
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Ringwraith

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Ringwraith » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:02 am

I do semi-joke that games writing is bad a lot in general.
As most of isn't very good.
Although some of the best writing tends to takes elements from other media and combines with uniquely videogame tricks.

Been playing Trails of Cold Steel recently, which is part of a series which gives all the NPCs their own little personal dramas you can hear about by talking to them, as everyone moves about and changes what they say every time you progress the main plot any amount. So it's feels very dense but you can view as many or as little of their personal microdramas or mundane days as you'd like.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:10 am

Nalyd wrote:as with everything on RPG Codex, it can be paraphrased by "i am old and do not like change in personal, recreational, or cultural contexts, here are some half-assed rationalizations about why feeling that way is objectively right."


Which is precisely why it praises animation and full voice acting as a way to deliver stories in a much more condensed and often better way than text.
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Sudanna

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Sudanna » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:29 am

this counterexample is not effective. wanting animation or voice acting isn't a new desire, just a new technological capability. people have always wanted to somehow see their D&D campaigns as cool action movies and such.

(i do not like animation or full voice acting, generally, i prefer text)
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:29 pm

Nalyd wrote:(i do not like animation or full voice acting, generally, i prefer text)


Thats because you are old and dont like change in visual,aural and emphatic context,so whatever you write about this topic can now be completely discarded.

I get exactly why you wrote your previous lame dismissal,and ignored at least 2/3 of that text.The 2/3 that have been flung at video game* writing in general for over a decade now,by a bunch of people from within and without the industry.So yeah,even if you disagree with the writer about the specific examples,most of that editorial is objectively correct.

*Not just video game writing though.Many of those are problems that come up often in other mediums as well.But being young,video games tolerate those more.
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lurkey

Re: Also Not The 9 O'Clock News

Postby lurkey » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:45 pm

I mostly prefer text over animation and full voice acting as well, and that's exactly why I'm more picky about former than latter in my games. So I completely agree with the author re: logorrhea, purple prose, adverb overdose, strings of adjectives and similar literary garbage. Among other things.

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