Page 4 of 6

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:20 am
by grahams_xwing
Welp - Paradox are being Paradox I guess. V1.2 has revamped the UI, added map modes, torn up diplomacy and rewritten it entirely, tweaked a load of balance issues and added a little more midgame content. This one's going to run and run...

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:30 am
by Andrew
grahams_xwing wrote:Welp - Paradox are being Paradox I guess. V1.2 has revamped the UI, added map modes, torn up diplomacy and rewritten it entirely, tweaked a load of balance issues and added a little more midgame content. This one's going to run and run...


Is it better or worse?

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:39 am
by Humanoid
Sounds better, though the changelog was too long for me to bother with, but the critical question is "is it enough?" Assuming they go with their original plan, this is as far contentwise as the base game will provide, and future content will be locked behind DLC.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:46 am
by grahams_xwing
Its an improvement definitely - and I think it goes to show that they understand the issues the game has and are actively seeking to make it a better experience all around. The map UI changes alone make the mid to end game more manageable - colour overlays are available that describe opinion and diplomatic status of your empire and others, plus that info is displayed as tooltips as well so less hunting through menus to find out info.

Interestingly the diplomacy mechanic has effectively been reversed. Defaults status is open borders, you have to shut your borders to prevent traffic through them (with a dimplomacy hit I'd assume), meaning you can move to engage threats without 3rd parties getting in the way.

To answer Humanoid, I don't think it's 'enough' yet, until they fix that mid game and sort out a way of making the end game fights a little more tactical they wont be able to say it's 'done' I don't think. But it's a step in the right direction and a statement of intent that all the forum posts and press statements about future updates can't replicate.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:55 pm
by Retsam
Yeah, the Asimov update definitely seems like a big step in the right direction. For me a big issue was a lack of mid-game content and it sounds like diplomacy events will be a nice source of mid-game content; though my guess is that the mid-game will still be rather sparse until they add something like the colony events that they originally planned.

If I didn't already have a lot of games I wanted to play right now, Asimov might be enough for me to take another crack at Stellaris, but most likely I'll just wait for 1.3/Heinlein.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:34 pm
by Galad
Right. As someone posted previously, in Stellaris you are dropped on a single planet with no allies or enemies in sight, right? So that means if I ever get it it's not going to just, metaphorically speaking, gather virtual dust on its virtual shelf?

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:36 pm
by Ninety-Three
Galad wrote:Right. As someone posted previously, in Stellaris you are dropped on a single planet with no allies or enemies in sight, right? So that means if I ever get it it's not going to just, metaphorically speaking, gather virtual dust on its virtual shelf?


I'm not sure I understand the intent of the question. Yes, you start on one planet with no immediate alien contact. As in every 4X, even if you sit still, other empires will find you with their scouts, and eventually they'll send armies. You can't play it as a no-stress city-builder if that's what you mean (not that I'd recommend that anyway, there's not really enough to do if you're not fighting empires and trying to expand under time pressure).

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:41 pm
by 4th Dimension
Ninety-Three wrote:
Galad wrote:Right. As someone posted previously, in Stellaris you are dropped on a single planet with no allies or enemies in sight, right? So that means if I ever get it it's not going to just, metaphorically speaking, gather virtual dust on its virtual shelf?


I'm not sure I understand the intent of the question. Yes, you start on one planet with no immediate alien contact. As in every 4X, even if you sit still, other empires will find you with their scouts, and eventually they'll send armies. You can't play it as a no-stress city-builder if that's what you mean (not that I'd recommend that anyway, there's not really enough to do if you're not fighting empires and trying to expand under time pressure).

You kind of can, if you lower the number of enemies and form an early alliance. At least you could in 1.0 when AI wasn't agressive.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:49 pm
by Daemian Lucifer
Master of orion is out.I dont like it.

I mean ok,for that price its a solid enough game.But its not particularly good.Its bland.Everything you do is samey.The only part of it I truly detest is the fucking real time combat.

But one thing I do want to talk about is espionage.Its so bare bones and bad,but the thing is,turn based strategies rarely have good espionage.I want to praise civ4 once more here,because espionage they introduced there was at least somewhat decent.The passive component of it was great,giving you vision of various cities depending on your espionage spending compared to theirs,the distance to said city,trade,religion and buildings in it.Thats why I praise civ4 constantly,because the stuff it streamlined,it usually streamlined them so well.The active component of it was still a bit clunky,but definitely way better than this shit.

So yeah,the new master of orion,not the worst,but not brilliant either.Which is why I dont like it.Now Im off to play it some more.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:04 pm
by Daemian Lucifer
BEHOLD!The true spiritual successor to master of orion has arrived!It has weird races,it has nice tech,it has exploration not tied to lanes,and most importantly IT HAS TURN BASED TACTICAL COMBAT!Fuck yeah!!!

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:54 pm
by Ninety-Three
So is anyone still playing Stellaris? At this point they've put out several expansions and a bunch more patches, and on the one hand I'm curious to go back to it, but on the other hand I don't want to buy $40 of expansions and invest five hours only to find out they haven't solved their twin problems of "After the early game expansion, the only thing to do is war" and "War consists of spending minerals to build a doomstack, then throwing your doomstack at the enemy's doomstack".

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:23 pm
by 4th Dimension
I'm not playing (mostly due to time) but I have been following their DDs.

First this is Paradox, you don't really need to buy DLCs to get such features that improve the game. They reserve the specific spacial things for the DLCs that impact the gameplay only in specific circumstances.

They hava apparently made great leaps and bounds on it. And they also completely re balanced the combat, making it more a rock paper scizors affair warship class wise. Also now civilian vessels can cross enemy borders so you could possibly scout enemy ship configs... maybe.

Then again the actuall battles are still hands off afairs.

If you allready have it, let it update and try it again.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:46 pm
by Retsam
Yeah, I've also been following the Dev Diaries, and a lot of the features seem like they've really improved things in all the patching, though I really haven't played it since it came out, either.

I still think there's some work to be had on the mid-game, but it sounds like it's vastly improved from launch.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:40 am
by Ninety-Three
I have now played a bunch of Stellaris 1.5. They rebalanced a lot of badly-balanced things (happiness was too strong, one weapon type was clearly the best, etc). They added some more economic knobs to tweak and added a dash more Grand Strategy. They introduced no new victory conditions and combat is still a tedious exercise in simplistic doomstackery. At this point, I think Paradox either isn't aware of the problem, or can't fix it.

The game is undeniably improved, but all those improvements are wasted because at the end of the day, you're building your economy to fight wars, and fighting wars is boring.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:20 am
by 4th Dimension
Ehh, I don't think it's much different from the combat loop from any of their other games where most of the time bigger stack wins. What draws you there is building your nation, and wars are just there to help you expand and aren't the only way to acquire new resources and abilities.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:18 am
by Daemian Lucifer
The difference is that what they are doing for their other games practically no one else does.But here,there are plenty of rather elaborate space turn based strategies that do far more interesting things with combat,or empire management,or diplomacy.The most interesting part of stellaris still is the initial race setup,especially the way they did hive minds(this is the best hive mind depiction I have seen in a space 4X so far).But once you enter the game itself...The planets arent as well done as galciv 3,the empire management isnt as well done as star ruler 2,the combat isnt as well done as stars i shadow.Its all just too generic.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:33 pm
by gloatingswine
Ninety-Three wrote:I have now played a bunch of Stellaris 1.5. They rebalanced a lot of badly-balanced things (happiness was too strong, one weapon type was clearly the best, etc).


Neither happiness or weapon balance has changed much in 1.5. The best ship design from 1.4 is still the best now (and it's not even the best by a small margin, we're talking one to two casualties out of fifty against an equal strength AI fleet), and happiness is, whilst no better than it was in 1.4 a lot easier to get because there are more ways to get it without using up planet tiles (it's easy to keep most of your factions at least content, and all your pop happiness goes on top of faction baseline).

Stellaris isn't about having the biggest doomstack, it's about building the golden ship design and beating stacks several times the size of yours. (Just like MoO2).

The new government design stuff is better than before, it's a way better system than the old 15 governments that were mostly toss, and has more characterful stuff in too (even if Agarian Idyll is kinda broken due to how much unity it pumps out). Factions are more interesting and give you an excuse to do things you might not otherwise bother with.

Combat and war is still a problem, there's still a golden ship design that beats everything that isn't a specific hard counter to it that the AI won't build, and winning a single fleet engagement is still enough to defeat an AI forever because it will never rebuild its fleet in time to stop you doing it again even if you leave all its planets intact. However you can demand far more planets and vassalise larger empires due to new techs and tradition choices, so you don't have to do it as many times

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:06 pm
by Ninety-Three
gloatingswine wrote:
Ninety-Three wrote:I have now played a bunch of Stellaris 1.5. They rebalanced a lot of badly-balanced things (happiness was too strong, one weapon type was clearly the best, etc).


Neither happiness or weapon balance has changed much in 1.5. The best ship design from 1.4


I haven't played the game since near-launch, so I was talking about the total changes.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:47 pm
by Retsam
Endless Space 2 is out. I liked the original quite a bit, and from what I've heard this one is quite a step up from the original.

I'm not going to pick it up at the moment, (I've already got "more Stellaris" at the top of my "to-play" list), but if anyone else wants to give it a spin, early signs for this one are looking pretty good.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:47 am
by Steve C
ES2 is finally out of early access huh? Good to know. I liked Endless Space a lot. Pity I figured out 3 separate ways to break that game. OP strategies that destroyed the fun of playing it. Hopefully I won't be able to do those in ES2.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:05 pm
by Retsam
Despite my previous claim, I actually did pick up Endless Space 2, (since I found it on sale). I've played for about 4 hours, (which isn't much for these sort of games), but I'm liking it so far. It's a fair step up in complexity from ES1, (at least from my memory, it's been awhile since I played it), it feels to me like some sort of halfway point between Endless Space 1 and Stellaris.

The biggest change, and (so far at least), the source of the most complexity is the politics system. I'm still trying to figure out how all the moving parts work here, but there are 6 political parties: industrial, military, scientific, ecological, pacifist, religious. These political parties gain and lose strength (represented by senate seats and overall control of the senate) depending on your actions: taking military action, hiring military heroes, or researching military technologies will increase the power of the military party. Which party is in control affects what laws you can enact.

This is affected by the population makeup of your empire; each unit of population now has a type, which gives it a bonus (e.g. +3 food on sterile planets) and political traits as well. For example, the standard pop unit from my faction, (I ended up playing the standard human faction: I was going to leave it on humans, but decided to switch it to random, but got the humans randomly anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) boosts the effect of my industrialist actions, and causes scientific actions to also boost my industrial support, while lessening the effects of my ecological actions.

I'm still trying to figure out how this work in practice, (I imagine once my empire gets a bit larger and more diverse is when politics will start getting more interesting), but on paper at least, it seems like an interesting system. Rather than, say Stellaris, where you just declare your government to be, say "Xenophobic Militaristic", it seems like they're going for a more fluid system where your actions determine your government.

The combat seems pretty much par for the course. Only 2 weapon types instead of 3, and more of an emphasis on short vs. medium vs. long range, but otherwise it looks like it's going to be basically the same song and dance as before. But "standard Space 4X combat" is at least inoffensive, in my book. It's been a long time, but I think the combat in Endless Legend is largely what killed that game for me.

But I'm enjoying it so far, but 4 hours really is a pretty small amount of time for one of these games. And I'm not sure how I'd be handling if I hadn't played both ES1 and EL.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:22 pm
by Daemian Lucifer
Galciv 3 crusaders expansion is out.It finally deals with spamming bases everywhere in a nice way,by adding great people,I mean citizens.Otherwise,its mostly galciv 3,with a bunch of tweaks.I like it.The combat is still automated,but I will take that over the FUCKING REAL TIME COMBAT IN A TURN BASED GAME any time.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:18 pm
by Steve C
How is retreating handled in ES2? The way the previous game handled retreating was... well... broken. It was impossible to lose ES1 and almost impossible to lose Endless Legend because of it. And ships? Is there a good solid reason to build larger ships in ES2? Cheap crappy ships were all you ever needed in ES1 and were generally superior.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 12:41 am
by Andrew
Retsam wrote:it feels to me like some sort of halfway point between Endless Space 1 and Stellaris.

So if I said to you that I loved Stellaris but always burned out in its (non existent) mid game, would you say that ES 2 is a better option?

I never played ES 1 and I tried to play Endless Legends a while back but in the end I just couldn't be bothered learning the game (I bought it in Steam's summer sale last year) so to date I have about 26 minutes played.

Daemian Lucifer wrote:Galciv 3 crusaders expansion is out.It finally deals with spamming bases everywhere in a nice way,by adding great people,I mean citizens.Otherwise,its mostly galciv 3,with a bunch of tweaks.I like it.The combat is still automated,but I will take that over the FUCKING REAL TIME COMBAT IN A TURN BASED GAME any time.

So you would obviously say the game is in a playable state? I have had this one on my wishlist since it was released but have never bitten (even on sale) because every time I visit the reviews section on Steam I see people complaining about a broken and only half finished game.

Basically what I'm trying to do is decide between ES 2 and GalCiv.

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:24 am
by Daemian Lucifer
It was a complete game even before,but it did have some features missing when compared to the previous one.There was no asteroid mining(there is now),and there was no espionage(there is now).Its definitely a better game with the expansion,but even without it it was a good game.