Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:19 pm

4th Dimension wrote:But I also heard it has no pause, and that would annoy me greatly. I simply do not have the twitch, and don't care about it, to position and monitor my units while working on my base.


Well then you will definitely like the dumb ai.No need to pause when thats around.
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Supahewok

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Supahewok » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:00 pm

4th Dimension wrote:But I also heard it has no pause, and that would annoy me greatly. I simply do not have the twitch, and don't care about it, to position and monitor my units while working on my base.


What real time strategy games released in the past few years do have pause? I'm in the same boat as you; big reason why I tend to go back to The Battle For Middle Earth and Empire at War for my RTS fixes is because they let me pause and issue orders however I want. The only new RTS I've bought in years was Starcraft 2, to see what all the fuss was. Liked the structure of the campaign and the factions, but without pause I'm just not that into it.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:13 pm

Supahewok wrote:What real time strategy games released in the past few years do have pause?


Does achron count?

And I think that jelly one has pause as well.

Oh stupid me,company of heroes 2 has pause.Thats such an obvious one.
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Retsam

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Retsam » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:51 pm

Daemian Lucifer wrote:
Supahewok wrote:What real time strategy games released in the past few years do have pause?


Does achron count?

And I think that jelly one has pause as well.

Oh stupid me,company of heroes 2 has pause.Thats such an obvious one.


I wouldn't really count Achron; you can stop moving through time, but time itself doesn't stop, so it doesn't actually give the player any more time to think about what they're doing.

Shame about that game; such a neat concept, I feel it probably just needed a bit more polish.
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4th Dimension

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby 4th Dimension » Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:19 am

Daemian Lucifer wrote:
4th Dimension wrote:But I also heard it has no pause, and that would annoy me greatly. I simply do not have the twitch, and don't care about it, to position and monitor my units while working on my base.


Well then you will definitely like the dumb ai.No need to pause when thats around.

Ehhhh no. The reason I like to have a pause is that I like my armies positioning to be good and their battle lines to be organized. It's not the difficulty that worries me (although dynamic difficulty that negates your successes like in Homeworld would annoy me greatly) in fact I wouldn't be worried. I would be greatly annoyed because I couldn't perfectly well order my fights because I'm not as good at wildly clicking.

Oh and as for pause Homeworlds did have the possibility to pause and issue orders, I'm pretty certain. As for the recent ones, only the RTS battles in Total War games spring to mind. But than again pause is only essential in games where aligment and precise positioning of troops is important. If you can a move 75% of the time and win it's not as important.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:10 pm

*sigh*the new master of orion has real time combat.Seems like I am the only one* who likes tactical space combat,seeing how NOT A SINGLE ONE space game in the last...god knows how many years had it.So many "spiritual successors" to master of orion,and all of them either had real time space combat,or just auto resolved combat.And now the actual official sequel to master of orion,the first sequel after moo2,is not going to have turn based combat.

If anyone needs me,Ill be in the corner,weeping.

*Seriously,this isnt a joke.Even xcom got a full tactical remake,with time units and everything.SEVERAL such remakes actually,both for free and sold for money.Its maddening!
Vulture

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Vulture » Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:40 pm

Well that takes it off the list of games I might be interested in. Real time space combat doesn't make an awful lot of smart to me at the best of times (outside of arcade / star wars stuff that had no pretensions to even the slightest degree of realism), but makes even less sense in the context of a 4x strategy game.
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4th Dimension

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby 4th Dimension » Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:10 pm

Wasn't there that Firaxis Space Combat game disguised as Civ in space? You would build up your fleed composed of 3-4 ships, research upgrades for them and such. But most of the time you would be running around spreading your influence by killing things in TBS space combat. Jarenth did a LP of it if you are interested.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:43 pm

4th Dimension wrote:Wasn't there that Firaxis Space Combat game disguised as Civ in space? You would build up your fleed composed of 3-4 ships, research upgrades for them and such. But most of the time you would be running around spreading your influence by killing things in TBS space combat. Jarenth did a LP of it if you are interested.


Sid meiers starships.Wasnt very good.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:06 pm

Ok,Ive tried the master of orion alpha,and I just want to say

FUCK OFF WITH YOUR REAL TIME COMBAT IN TURN BASED GAMES,YOU IMPATIENT ASSHOLES!

That is all.
Vulture

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Vulture » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:21 pm

Daemian Lucifer wrote:Ok,Ive tried the master of orion alpha,and I just want to say

FUCK OFF WITH YOUR REAL TIME COMBAT IN TURN BASED GAMES,YOU IMPATIENT ASSHOLES!

That is all.


It hasn't grown on you then?
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:33 am

Vulture wrote:It hasn't grown on you then?


Nope.

But you know whats worse than the change in combat?The ui.Ok,so supposedly real time combat instead of old tactical one is there to stop combat from getting bogged down in the late game.Fine,lets accept that that was the only way to do it*.

So riddle me this:Why are you then able to move citizens only one at a time?The originals allowed you to move them in bulk.Doesnt that bog down the late game(or early game for that matter)?

Or how about this:when building stuff on a planet theres the display of it on the right,that slowly rotates and shows buildings youve made.Yet you cannot do anything on it.If you want to inspect all those buildings you have to click a button that moves the planet a bit to the center,and you have to click another button to exit this screen that only allows you to inspect built stuff and nothing else.Doesnt this unnecessary divide bog down the late game(or early game for that matter)?

Or how about star lanes.With increasing speed in earlier games,you could pretty quickly go from any star to any other star.Here,no matter how fast your ships are,and no matter how close the stars are,you have to spend at least one turn to go through a star lane and then another turn to reach another star lane.So if you want to reach a star 10 stars away,thats 20 turns.Doesnt that bog down the late game?

Or how about diplomacy,where saying goodbye gives you another screen where the one you are talking to says goodbye,and you have to click another button to actually exit.Doesnt that bog down the late game(or early game for that matter)?

Or how about the fact that every screen has to be exited by pressing a specific button,or reaching for escape,instead of using the useless rmb.You know,like how in xcom you can exit everything by just pressing rmb anywhere you want.Doesnt that bog down the late game(or early game for that matter)?

So heres a tip:If you want to make a game user friendly,smooth and fast,focus on the interface first.And most importantly fuck off with your notion how turn based games are "too slow" or "get bogged down".If you think like that,DONT MAKE A TURN BASED GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE.

*Its most definitely not.Using stacks,having various programmable behaviors,grouping,....theres a bunch of ways it couldve been done.Heck,it IS done by various other turn based games.
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4th Dimension

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby 4th Dimension » Fri May 06, 2016 10:04 am

So Stellaris by Paradox looks like it's going to be another Paradox gem and they really outdid themselves on the customization front.

First when you start a game it will let you make a species of your own choosing from a wide range of ethos (eg. Miliatant Xenophile), traits for your population, look of your ships, the ttype of planets your pops inhabit and even a vide range of character portraits and even namesets that your characters will use. That way you can play the faction of your choosing. Depending on this choice how the rest of the universe treats you and how can you respond to it's challenges will change. Like a Spiritualist Empire is probably not going to be thrilled by you messing with robotics and giving robots sentience.

Next you need to make another important choice. Now in other games the way your ships travel the galaxy is predetermined by the game mechanics and most if not all factions will use the same method. But paradox rather than choosing one let you choose for your empire one of three that pretty much cover most of the common FTL ways in fiction. Warpjumps are your common warpspace/lightspeed/warpseed travel where your ships are able to jump to any system in range from the edge of a Star system. Pretty vanilla with the only trade off being it's relative slowness. Wormholes allow you to create wormhole stations that can generate wormholes between the station and any system in range and once the wormhole is open the travel is instantaneous. It's like a much faster Warp but with the added problem of having to build wormhole stations to cover systems where you might want to go. Also expanding into enemy territory is a bit more difficult since your advance can be stopped by the range of your stations untill you build more inside the enemy territory. And if you don't pay attention and don't make redundancies enemy could strand your fleet in a system by hitting a key wormhole station. Final way of travel are your traditional hyperlanes. Systems are connected with hyperlanes, but any given system is NOT connected to all it's neighbors. Hyperlanes are as fast if not faster than wormholes and don't require infrastructure BUT your ships need to visit all the intervening systems (no jumping over enemy territory) and enemy can lock you out from a sector of space by holding a key system.

Now that you have choosen a FTL flavour and play style you prefer you can choose the number of STARTING Empires, type of Galaxy and number of systems in it. The meny offers galaxies of up to 1k stars BUT there are no fixed limit on the amount of stars that can be modded in via fixed Galaxies. I've seen a map where devs were experimenting with 5k galaxy, only of course that might be a bit too much for your computer. The generator will generate the galaxy, star systems with a variety of planets. It is not uncommon that a system might contain more than one habitable planet, or none at all. Then the starting systems will be tailor made for the starting Empires, and Fallen Empires will be added in.

Fallen Empires are basically precursors that are still running around. They are the extreemes of their ideology, have all the techs unlocked and are massively more powerful than the starting races. This is balanced by the fact that they are decadent and will not rebuild their fleets will not expand and will largely ignore you the ants that you are. But they WILL rigorously enforce their ethos on their neighbors if they consider them in the breach. So Extreme Spiritualist will not like you colonizing sacred Gaia planets; Extreme Isolationists will not like you getting anywhere near close to their borders; Xenophiles will lok down to you purging planets of the inhabitants or enslaving them etc. And if they decide to do something about you your best course of action is to surrender immediately unless you are prepared and it's endgame. Seriously don't mess with these guys. During London multiplayer event where 32 players played at one point they all allied with the intention of ganging up on ONE Fallen Empire. Entire galaxy in early mid game vs One Fallen Empire. They lost HARD. On paper they had enough firepower to match the fallen empire's Home Ring System fleet (ON PAPER but not actually) but they had nowhere enough firepower to match their entire fleet that was soon everywhere blowing the shit out of their infrastructure and forcing them to surrender. Good news is that they will take no systems, but will simply enforce their demands: removing you from their borders, purging Gaia worlds, liberating the people you are purging, destroying your robots etc. They are in game to introduce some asymmetry and randomness. And add the sense of this being the old galaxy.

Another thing adding to the sense of oldness is the fact that as your explorers survey the galaxy they will be running into anomalies and studying them. And there are a lot of them ranging on simple background lore, to learning about the empires that came before you to discovering new tech based on spacelife you may encounter. And this is how you will spend early to mid game. Also as you meet new life you will not immediately know their language, but you or them will need to study each other in order to establish first contact. You will even run into planets inhabited already by sentient (in different stages of development) or non sentient life. First you can help along on their path to space (or thay can get there on their own or blow themselves up during atomic age) and the later you can uplift.

At the start you will only be able to colonize the planets of the same type as your home planet. But even if you research how to colonize different biomes, your pops might still not be best at living there. sure you can figure out how to construct settlements for your water world colonists on a desert planet, but they will never like it there and will be much less suited to working and thriving there than some race that evolved on such a planet. That is until they potentially eventually evolve and adapt to the world. This means that it would be nice to find some other race whose pops you could use to populate such planet. You can get those in a variety of ways. You could conquer another species's planet and use their pops to colonize planets that are unsuited to your race's population. You can even get an open migration treaty with an Empire allowing your and their pops to emigrate to planets they like. So there is a big incentive to working with the conquered species rather than purging them all for the filthy xenos they are.

And so the mid game will arrive. Most of the galaxy will be settled and you will learn about most of the Empires in it by this point, at which the game largely shifts into Paradox grand strategy mode where you will use diplomacy, alliances and military might to chart a way to brighter tomorow or survive. Here you will learn that while tech matters, what you put on your ships matters even more (unless the tech difference was especially massive). Which was really apparent during two battles during London multiplayer event.
During one encounter a technologically superior main battle fleet of a xenophobic bugs species were CRUSHED in a single massive battle by a better designed fleet. The bugs tried building a fleet of ultimate CQC ships with close range massive damage guns and relied on shields to get them close to the enemy. Unfortunatelly for them the enemy went for long range missiles which ignore shields and to make matters worse they had no point defense, so most of their fleet died while trying to get into the range of the enemy. That same war was also decided by the ability of the fleets of the Star Empire of Manticore (which proved themselves worthy of their novel namesakes) to rapidly shift from front to front using their hyperlane FTL and destroy fleets in traditional Manticoran way, using loooong range missile swarms. At one point they were able to overtake a fleet retreating, so when ragged survivors of the enemy fleet wrped in a supposedly safe system they found out they waped in on the top of the Manty fleet. In the last engagement of the event during battle of 192.168.27.0/24 (truly a name that will go into annals of history) a fleet was able tu punch like 2 times above it's firepower rating simply because it was properly designed to counter the design relying on missiles that the majority used.
In fact when going to was it is smart to keep a sizable warchest untill you meet the enemy in battle and actually see what are their designs and will you need to upgrade/redesign or build a new fleet. So yes ship designer is in the game.

As for diplomacy you have alliances where any declarations of war need to be ratified by other alliance members (so it's preferable to bribe them with wargoals that benefit them and not only you) there are federations that are more centralized versions of alliances. In federations all members are still independent Empires but their foreign policy (war declaration and peace) is controlled by the president of the federation which rotates among fed. members. Also the president gets to control/design/build a federation fleet. A force of ships whose design is based on all the techs that the fed. members have researched. And why would that be important. Surely most of the members are probably about same tech wise with some being more advanced than the others as they go down the tech tree. Well that is because there is no tech tree. WHAAAT?

There is no tech tree, and the technologies that are presented to you as possible for research (4 techs) are randomized each time you research a new tech. The tech you will get as a choice are weighted so you are likely to get some important tech such as bigger ship types or tech for colonization, but tech are also weighted based on your past preference. So if you are favoring lasers as weapon research path you are more likely to get more laser techs. This way each time your tech level is different and there is no real optimal tech order, and it ensures that there will be a variety of tech focus and levels throughout the galaxy which is why a federation fleet ships are likely to be stronger than any ship of any member nations. Coz they can use the best modules available from all trees.

As for the internal mechanics of your empire it's not static either. In order to simplify things and reduce micromanagement that would be involved with managing an Empire dozens of planets strong, sectors are a must. Similary to CK2 your government can only directly control a small number of world (by midgame ~5). These are likely to be 5 core most prosperous and advanced worlds where you will be building and docking your fleet. The rest of the systems and planets you need to give to sectors and they will economically be managed by the AI whose focus you can set. The AI will build no ships but will send you resources based the level of taxation, but they will build the improvements in their systems. That way the management is simplified and as far as i have seen AI is pretty fine with doing such management. Sectors are also important in that over time as you empire grows in scope population of planet will start to diverge from yours in terms of ethos and traits, not to mention that many of those planets will be populated by pops of other races. Due to this the disagreements and formations of Factions inside your empire will be inevitable, and if you don't manage things properly it's quite likely for a planet or an entire sector to go rebel in an attempt to enforce their own views on you, or even to form a splinter Empire.

If you manage to get to the lategame as either an endgame powerhouse or a small Empire sandwiched between bigger ones Stellaris is likely to throw one last surprise on you. Late Game Crisis. Crises are an late game galaxy vide event where you will be scrambling to either prevent or make happen an event. Depending on what was researched or random dice roll a Crisis can be anything from dealing with the emergence of rogue AI/robots (which happens when one empire goes too far in AI research and pisses off it's robot slaves that they stage a successful robot uprising) to extragalactic invasions.

While I am an unashamed fanboi, I will admit that there are some problems that I have spotted during various streams paradox has held during intervening months (Blorg stream where cKnoor and Game Dev played as a race of repugnant long lived shrooms obsessed with aliens (xenophile) and being friends with them to the point that they will not take no for an answer (militant), and London two day massive multiplayer LAN match). The first one is that despite Paradox clearly investing a LOT of time into creating a lot of anomalies and events to throw some color and sense of wonder into the world (and the music obviously helps a lot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuELLd3Ec4U ) their worth for the time invested might be dubious, since during multiplayer most of the players ignored them most of the time. But they will sure be invaluable for role playing purposes. The second is the map that clearly lack some sort of icons to indicate the fleet strengths in systems without you having to hover over the enemy fleet icon in the Galaxy view mode. Also map lacks diplomacy map mode to show who is your ally, enemy, rival or neutral. All of this might make managing a large war or diplomacy a bit more tiring than it should. On the other hand these map troubles shouldn't be har to solve and since the Dev remarked it's likely to be solved in future patches. The event worth problem on teh other hand if not solved by Paradox will certainly be solved by modders since this is a Paradox game and as a result modding support is like no 1. item on the Dev priority list.

So in all likelihood Stellaris will #MakeSpaceGreatAgain

Also you can find dev diaries that are a fun read here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/in ... ve.882950/
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Fri May 06, 2016 1:55 pm

First of all,sapient,not sentient.Anyway:

4th Dimension wrote:But paradox rather than choosing one let you choose for your empire one of three that pretty much cover most of the common FTL ways in fiction.


Sword of the stars had basically a different ftl drive for each of their six races.Although technically 2 of them were using different aspects of wormholes(one using the natural ones,while the other bore new ones),and 2 were using different aspects of warp,one using it to "slowly" travel between the stars,while the other using it to instantly teleport between two warp gates(that get positioned via regular travel).Also,all races used different drives for sublight travel as well.

4th Dimension wrote:Fallen Empires are basically precursors that are still running around.


To be honest,Im sick of the precusor races.Why cant we BE the precusors,the first ones to explore the galaxy,and its future races that stumble upon our remains?Why must every space strategy have precusor race(s)?

4th Dimension wrote:There is no tech tree, and the technologies that are presented to you as possible for research (4 techs) are randomized each time you research a new tech.


Not a fan of that one.At all.I sometimes tick the "random technology" box in games that have it,just to check it out,but I always turn it off quickly.

4th Dimension wrote:As for the internal mechanics of your empire it's not static either.


But that one sounds pretty interesting.

Personally,the one Im looking forward to(if it ever comes out) is predestination.
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4th Dimension

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby 4th Dimension » Fri May 06, 2016 6:33 pm

Daemian Lucifer wrote:First of all,sapient,not sentient.

I was wondering if I made a mistake there, but I was confident you would correct me on that account. ;)

Daemian Lucifer wrote:Sword of the stars had basically a different ftl drive for each of their six races.Although technically 2 of them were using different aspects of wormholes(one using the natural ones,while the other bore new ones),and 2 were using different aspects of warp,one using it to "slowly" travel between the stars,while the other using it to instantly teleport between two warp gates(that get positioned via regular travel).Also,all races used different drives for sublight travel as well.

That is interesting. And considering that Paradox the publisher has published that game I wouldn't be surprised if that game did not influence Stellaris. To be fair to the S the objective was never for the devs to make interesting and diverse premade races, but for you to make a race of your choice and face off against a galaxy of unknowns. So 3 different methods is fine.

Daemian Lucifer wrote:To be honest,Im sick of the precusor races.Why cant we BE the precusors,the first ones to explore the galaxy,and its future races that stumble upon our remains?Why must every space strategy have precusor race(s)?

Because in the eyes of the devs they add another interesting mechanic to add a degree of unpredictability to the galaxy so it's not all about who has more planets. Also atmosphere wise what with the various events and anomalies refering from time to time to fallen empires that are gone it fits the galaxy that you are not the first. Also this is in many ways a living galaxy where it's not unussual for a new AI controlled Empire to get formed after start when a species finally achieves spaceflight on their own.
On the othe hand if you really can't somach them, this is a Paradox game so it certainly shouldn't be impossible to doable them or mode them out or play on a predetermined static galaxy with no Fallen Empires.

Daemian Lucifer wrote:Not a fan of that one.At all.I sometimes tick the "random technology" box in games that have it,just to check it out,but I always turn it off quickly.

I get what you are saying and it can be frustrating when the tech you want eludes you, but tech options aren't really completly random. They are weighted so that common neccessary ones have a bigger weight than uncommon ones like AI research. Also you are offered up to 4 different possible tech's, and one of them is allways there since it is produced by researching wrecks of enemy ships.

Daemian Lucifer wrote:But that one sounds pretty interesting.

Personally,the one Im looking forward to(if it ever comes out) is predestination.

Well that is the easiest part for Paradox to make since it's basically what their other titles do only in them it's more detailed.
As for Predestination, it doesn't grab me atmosphere wise and if every planet uses that hex based grid, it could get really boring quickly to manage an empire of a nontrivial size. But than again I'm relatively new to 4X.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Sat May 07, 2016 7:12 pm

4th Dimension wrote:As for Predestination, it doesn't grab me atmosphere wise and if every planet uses that hex based grid, it could get really boring quickly to manage an empire of a nontrivial size.


Two things that sell it for me are the turn based tactical combat,which Ive bitched about for quite a while,and that you start as a pre warp civilization,which Ive seen only one game do it so far,and thats ascendancy.

As for stellaris,MathasGames did bring up a good point in the last cooptional:What makes paradox games so difficult to learn and grasp is that you are dropped in the middle of things.You have to figure out what stage your empire is in,who are your allies and enemies,everything.But in stellaris,you star as just a single planet,with no allies or enemies in sight,and that makes it much easier to get into it at first.
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Kelerak

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Kelerak » Sat May 07, 2016 10:01 pm

...so, Mass Effect, am I right?
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4th Dimension

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby 4th Dimension » Tue May 10, 2016 6:48 am

So Stellaris is out and I have been playing a bit last night (slept only 3 hours, this day will be fun), and I like it so far. There are some issues though. One of them is that 1k star galaxy seems to be a bit beyond my CPU's capabilities since I can not play at speeds quicker than fast or the fact that day=turn becomes noticable with the game pausing. It's probably going to be fine with smaller systems though.
They did simplify and streamline things a LOT compared to the other Paradox games and some of it I do not like. For example I do not like the fact that there is no ledger for stat listing, because I would really like for there to be a screen listing all the astronomic objects of import in my empire and not only colonies, since searching for places with high yeald of minerals can be a bit of a chore. The detailed view shows how many minerals are in a system total all astronomic objects combined, but I'm searching for big contributors since every mining station costs energy upkeep and is probably one of the reasons I'm currently short on energy.
And the fact that I have yet to find the screen where I can set which messages pause the game, whic as far as I'm concerned should be ALL of them.

On the other hand narrative events are nice showing how your pops feel about things happening in the galaxy. Makes me want to play Spiritualist Empire.
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grahams_xwing
Location: Corby, UK

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby grahams_xwing » Tue May 10, 2016 8:57 am

I played 5 hours as a xenophobic militaristic bunch of a-holes. Hemmed in the one local neighbour who was weaker than me and who is trapped in a dead end of hyperspace lanes but am surrounded by expansionistic democratic scum who want to be friends with everyone. Neglected to pick up colony ships the first time it was available and paid the price - it was years and years before it came back again, left me with some catching up to do, lots of outposts but way behind in Pop count.

Loving it...!
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Retsam

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Retsam » Tue May 10, 2016 4:09 pm

I'm also having fun with the couple hours I played. I went with some hippie space birds since I'll probably try to keep the number of wars I fight to a minimum anyway.

I'm some 5 hours in and so far I'm a bit surprised that the game isn't more complex; really so far it's been pretty much indistinguishable the 4X space games I've played (like Endless Space or GalCiv). Though I suspect that's going to change as I go on; the "sectors" mechanic is the first mechanic I've encountered that really feels "Grand Strategy"-esque.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Tue May 10, 2016 8:46 pm

I think people were expecting too much complexity from it being a paradox game.Ive seen far more complex games in the genre.

One thing I really like about this one is that population growth matters.Thats usually not the case.

But I dislike the ui.Zoom in/out should switch from galaxy map to system map.And its a shame you cannot queue stuff to build once you get the resources.And there are too many tabs you have to switch between to get the requested info.

Also,no tactical combat.Yet another one that disappoints on that front.
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4th Dimension

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby 4th Dimension » Tue May 10, 2016 9:35 pm

Yeah the fact that change between galaxy and system map modes is not tied to scrolwheel is wierd. I guess they could have added the ability to zoom out into the galaxy but they felt that zooming in might cause problems.

On the other hand it's not as problematic if you can get used to shortcut keys E for system view and M for Galaxy map. Still weird though.

Also it's a Paradox game so nobody really should have expected tactical level combat. All paradox titles boil down combat as you maneuvering your force into a most advantageous position and then the game does quite a bit of simulation how the battle would turn out taking into account a variety of factors and outputting a result for you. I have yet to reach midgame (no time for Stellaris) so I wonder if there are upgrades later on that force ships stay at a distance from their enemies if they have speed advantage. Something like that should be in considering all the different weapons with different ranges and the fact that HoI ship AI during battles does try to stay at the most effective range.
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Sudanna

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Sudanna » Tue May 10, 2016 11:31 pm

I really like that there's no tactical combat. That shit gets to be such a nightmare of time-wasting minutiae in every 4X game that has it.
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grahams_xwing
Location: Corby, UK

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby grahams_xwing » Wed May 11, 2016 8:16 am

There seems to be a nice basic meta game in the combat though. You seem to be encouraged to specialise your research down one attack path (I went rail guns) but having a mix of ships makes survivability skyrocket - just a few point defence ships in the mix really mitigates missile damage, especially if you are a fleet fighting single big targets. Lovely to watch your 30 ship fleet take down a 35 - 40 fleet enemy group just because your picking their missiles off before they reach your attack craft.

Hit and fade tactics seems to have a place as well, especially if you are attacking a civ that uses wormholes. Warp in, tag the fleet, take out the wormhole generator on the way out.
Only real issue I'm having is dealing with threats in multiple systems simultaneous, hard to keep track of multiple fleets with different targets, plus keeping your troops safe for planetary attacks.
Ninety-Three

Re: Videogames IN SPAAAACEEEE

Postby Ninety-Three » Thu May 12, 2016 1:31 am

I have been really disappointed by Stellaris because it had me expecting it to be something it's not. I expected a slightly more narrative experience, rather than this very traditional 4X. The opening and its flavor text really had me primed for a game about the majesty and wonder of space exploration, but no, "first contact with an alien species" just means "+60 research points", I'm encountering species and not even bothering to decode their communications because why bother (none of them ever want to trade anything anyway), and Boldy Going Where No Man Has Gone Before is simply "Sending out scouts to scan for places with a lot of good tiles to exploit, like you do in every 4X".

On a gameplay note, I hate hate hate the tech system. There's a tropical world near my home planet, but I can't colonize it because I don't have Tropical World Colonization tech, and I can't make any plans concerning that planet because I don't know if the tech will unlock in 2 years or 20. I'd like to focus on military now, but the deck isn't interested in that so I guess I'm going to be researching more econ. I know they were going for an "Every playthrough is different" thing, but they achieved it by completely removing the player's ability to plan. I don't even know if my empire is going to have more of a military or economic focus until the deck decides for me.

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