Game pet peeves

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Ringwraith

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Ringwraith » Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:40 pm

Humanoid wrote:There actually are a few bosses which play "fair" in this regard, i.e. they have a ranged weapon and a melee weapon that they can switch between on their turn. But more often they just get given a special weapon which does both at the same time.

They did attach major penalties to most variable range weapons so they decided not to give every stationary boss a crippling weakness to double attacks as a result.
Although they still don't negate the weapon triangle! They might invert and double it, but just means you can hit them harder with its opposite. :D

(Also late-game, the -breaker skills are still ridiculous, Jakob and Felicia actually become scary mage-killers as they have access to Tomebreaker really early, and get high resistance anyway).
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Narratorway
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Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Narratorway » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:39 pm

DOOM, we need to talk, cause ya done just pulled some bullshit.

And the thing is, I knew you were gonna. Knew it in mah bones. I was wandering around with full run of the level, having slapped e'ry demon on hand back to the bowel. I was looking for hows tah git to the last bits o secrets, peeking into every greyed out section of the map. Sure enough I found a spot I hadn't been to yet and it was behind a door that looked suspiciously...level-endy. I should have backed out right then and there honestly.

But I trusted you. I trusted you DOOM, to do the right thing...and ya didn't.

I slammed down on the last argent tube thingy, heard the last bit of dialogue from roboasshole, and turned around to go back exploring, but lo and behold, the door locked, because fuck you. Now I gotta replay, reexplore and re-fucking-slaughter e'ry demon again to find two measly fucking secrets.

Image

Why would ya do this to me DOOM? You were supposed to be an homage to the original. Fuck, one o d secrets I was looking for was one of the original levels ya stuph away in each stage, but y'know what the original didn't do? This fucking bullshit son! To say nothing of the fact that exploration is a integral part of the game. I can't upgrade my weapons without looking around. Why would you arbitrarily lock the level out? Ya didn't pull this shit in the prior levels.

Ya dun fucked up DOOM. Ya dun. Fucked. Up.
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Wide And Nerdy

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Wide And Nerdy » Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:22 pm

Games that are just an engine and you have to program the game and create the art assets yourself.

I'm looking at you Unreal, Source, and Unity. If you want people to think of you as a game engine, you need to include a game with your engine.
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mwchase
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Re: Game pet peeves

Postby mwchase » Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:44 pm

You mean, in terms of, here is a starting point, these are good development practices, this is what a game looks like on the inside?
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Wide And Nerdy

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Wide And Nerdy » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:31 pm

I was joking. I didn't have anything to complain about and I wanted attention.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:28 pm

Games with heavy scunthorpe problem.Especially if they are single player.They are funny when you arent playing them though.
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Supahewok

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Supahewok » Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:13 pm

Wide And Nerdy wrote:I was joking. I didn't have anything to complain about and I wanted attention.

Poe's Law claims another victim. When will they find the cure?!
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:37 pm

Supahewok wrote:
Wide And Nerdy wrote:I was joking. I didn't have anything to complain about and I wanted attention.

Poe's Law claims another victim. When will they find the cure?!


It already exists!Torgo's executive powder:

Image
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Humanoid

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Humanoid » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:29 am

I thought it was a swipe at No Man's Sky at first. :P
Ninety-Three

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Ninety-Three » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:02 am

Why do games have gotcha enemies? Landmines in Fallout, grass snakes in Heavy Bullets, mimics in... basically every action game with mimics. The first time a player encounters these things, they fall for the trap because they don't know any better, and they get wrecked. The second through tenth times, they know to be on the lookout for the trap and they disarm it trivially. The eleventh time, they forget and get wrecked again. The cycle repeats.

What is the point of this? The initial gotcha is a cheap death, disarming the traps isn't particularly satisfying, and dying because you forgot to check for traps sure isn't satisfying. What is going through the heads of every developer who decides to periodically kill the player for forgetting to perform an arbitrary, rote check for traps?
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:39 am

Ninety-Three wrote:What is the point of this?


Traps have their uses sometimes.Not as often as they are crammed in some games,but in some places.It all depends on how avoidable they are.For example,in rise of the tomb raider,you always get a chance to avoid a trap,ether by jumping off it,or by shooting the weak spot,and all done in slow mo so you can have even more time to avoid it.And you can even get a skill to have them more visible before you step on them.Id call that a good approach to traps.

But those damn snakes and mimics that you cannot even attempt to anticipate,those can go right to hell.
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Ringwraith

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Ringwraith » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:41 am

Although sudden snakes-in-pots (like Resident Evil's in 4 and 5) don't attack you immediately, so if you notice, you can react.
Same with mimics in at least one game I've played. There's no way to know if a chest is one, but aren't immediately lethal (though they can scare you), so you can back off.

So in many cases they aren't disastrous, particularly if there's no way to tell there's something there beforehand.
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Humanoid

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Humanoid » Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:35 am

And related to that, games giving you XP and/or stuff (like the mine itself) for disarming the trap means that even if you survive you're incentivised to reload anyway.

Same deal with DXHR's hacking things even if you already had the password. Anyone know if the sequel still has this issue?
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:40 am

Ringwraith wrote:So in many cases they aren't disastrous, particularly if there's no way to tell there's something there beforehand.


It may not be outright game ending,but it often is quite disastrous.For example,the first mimic you find in grimrock 2 is deep inside a dungeon,after youve been trained by the entire game that chests have valuable goodies in them,with no traps inside the chests themselves.So naturally your already weakened and bloody party will attempt to open that chest,in a place where you cant really backtrack much(its a ledge of a sorts),and even if you survive(and dont get a heart attack),you will most likely lose some of your party.Which is disastrous in that game.

Humanoid wrote:And related to that, games giving you XP and/or stuff (like the mine itself) for disarming the trap means that even if you survive you're incentivised to reload anyway.


Ugh,I hate xp for stuff like that.It usually means that even if you think of a clever way to disarm the trap(throw a rock at it),you will still ignore that solution because of xp.Or ignoring keys in order to lockpick doors.Xp should always be awarded to solving a problem/encounter and not for HOW you did it,because this isnt tabletop where a human gm can evaluate on the fly how ingenious your solution was.
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Ringwraith

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Ringwraith » Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:51 pm

Daemian Lucifer wrote:
Ringwraith wrote:So in many cases they aren't disastrous, particularly if there's no way to tell there's something there beforehand.


It may not be outright game ending,but it often is quite disastrous.For example,the first mimic you find in grimrock 2 is deep inside a dungeon,after youve been trained by the entire game that chests have valuable goodies in them,with no traps inside the chests themselves.So naturally your already weakened and bloody party will attempt to open that chest,in a place where you cant really backtrack much(its a ledge of a sorts),and even if you survive(and dont get a heart attack),you will most likely lose some of your party.Which is disastrous in that game.

I didn't find the first one on a ledge, although I might know the one you're talking about? You can just back up and leave it on its platform.
Running away is frequently an option, and it doesn't matter if people die as long as you can drag them at speed (makes no sense but it's a good concession) to the nearest glowing life stone.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:16 pm

Ringwraith wrote:I didn't find the first one on a ledge, although I might know the one you're talking about? You can just back up and leave it on its platform.
Running away is frequently an option, and it doesn't matter if people die as long as you can drag them at speed (makes no sense but it's a good concession) to the nearest glowing life stone.


Sure,you can run away from it easily,once you know about mimics.They are annoying later,but the first time they are outright panic inducing.And sure you can use the glowing stone to bring people to life,as long as you have the option to reuse them turned on,and the enemies havent respawned/you didnt miss clearing the route to the stone.

Then again,grimrock is very unforgiving with a lot of its enemies.Like the mermen.
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Ringwraith

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Ringwraith » Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:46 pm

Mind you, it's the kind of thing you've been probably quicksaving a lot in anyway.
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bitterpark

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby bitterpark » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:47 pm

You know what really annoys me? Games that require a lot of fiddling and customization of your party for very minor gains.

Darkest Dungeon has a bad case of this. All the dudes you hire have up to five bonus traits and five negative traits, each of which has a very minor effect, like +5% damage, -1 Dodge, doesn't like going to Ruins, good at going to Warrens and so forth.

You hire a virtually unlimited number of dudes, have to pick out four out of the roster of like twenty, for each mission, and then give them appropriate trinkets for more tiny bonuses.

This, while also making sure you put the people not on the mission into stress relief, and stick those who aren't stressed into sanitarium, deciding which ones to put into the limited number of slots and which ones to treat later... the HR micromanagement quickly gets to the point where it takes longer than the dungeoncrawling, and is also massively less rewarding. The best strategy is probably to just ignore all that shit, as it will give a very minor increase in efficency, but my perfectionism won't allow me to do that. And besides, it just feels like missing a very big chunk of the game if you just ignore traits like that, but they really don't have a large enough effect to be noticeable.

Though the worst example of this I've seen is Bionic Dues, an otherwise good roguelike/like/lite game that's ruined by this. Basically, you have four mechs you need to equip, and each of them has multiple weapon slots, computer slots, power generator slots, auxiliary slots...
Worse, it uses a diablo-style system of procedural loot generation with tiny stat increments, where each mission you get 3-6 new parts that all have bonuses like "-8% power consumption for all weapons, +1 ammo for missiles".

So after every mission you have to go through multiple sets of systems, each of which has multiple slots, across four mechs, to make sure you have equipped all the latest stuff, all for an increase in effectiveness measured in single digits. It's such a pain in the ass that I can't play that game anymore: the whole point is to upgrade your stuff as much as possible in a limited number of missions, the new equipment is the primary way of progression, but it takes so long to settle up all the interdependent bonuses and requirements, after each mission, only to have to do it all over again after the next mission.
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Ringwraith

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Ringwraith » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:49 pm

I like it when minor gains are possible by lots of tinkering, but also not required, or even really expected.
Reminded of the Armoured Core games in this regard, as later ones let you even do actual fine tuning, or just hit auto and it'll be something very functional for such a minor element.
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Charnel Mouse
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Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Charnel Mouse » Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:19 pm

bitterpark wrote:Though the worst example of this I've seen is Bionic Dues, an otherwise good roguelike/like/lite game that's ruined by this. Basically, you have four mechs you need to equip, and each of them has multiple weapon slots, computer slots, power generator slots, auxiliary slots...
Worse, it uses a diablo-style system of procedural loot generation with tiny stat increments, where each mission you get 3-6 new parts that all have bonuses like "-8% power consumption for all weapons, +1 ammo for missiles".

So after every mission you have to go through multiple sets of systems, each of which has multiple slots, across four mechs, to make sure you have equipped all the latest stuff, all for an increase in effectiveness measured in single digits. It's such a pain in the ass that I can't play that game anymore: the whole point is to upgrade your stuff as much as possible in a limited number of missions, the new equipment is the primary way of progression, but it takes so long to settle up all the interdependent bonuses and requirements, after each mission, only to have to do it all over again after the next mission.

Which difficulty did you play at? I've only played on normal, but I've had a few sudden increases in effectiveness that I wonder if all the fiddling is necessary outside of the early game. The filters sped the process up quite a bit for me, too.
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bitterpark

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby bitterpark » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:12 am

Charnel Mouse wrote:Which difficulty did you play at? I've only played on normal, but I've had a few sudden increases in effectiveness that I wonder if all the fiddling is necessary outside of the early game. The filters sped the process up quite a bit for me, too.

I don't remember, probably one of the higher ones.

Even if it wasn't actually necessary, getting better parts is like half the game right there, parts are supposed to be the primary reward you get for completing missions and side objectives, that or money you can use to buy more parts. It's a huge part of the game that just gets tiresome and un-fun as I have to go over four mechs for each new part I want to install.
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Wide And Nerdy

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Wide And Nerdy » Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:04 pm

Ringwraith wrote:I like it when minor gains are possible by lots of tinkering, but also not required, or even really expected.
Reminded of the Armoured Core games in this regard, as later ones let you even do actual fine tuning, or just hit auto and it'll be something very functional for such a minor element.



I like it only when you can make minor gains through a little tinkering, and then find interesting ways to stack the minor gains for a major gain.

Like maybe there's a weapon that attacks a lot for not so much damage, but separately there's a cool critical hit effect except that critical hits have a low probability per hit. So you use the crit effect in conjunction with the fast weapon and a piece of gear that makes you a little faster, and you take the dual wielding feat that has a substantial attack penalty but it doesn't hurt your chances of triggering a critical hit.

And maybe its less obvious than that. Like maybe the effect of the crit isn't that good on its own but it inflicts a status condition that allows another ally to do something devastating if you've made the right choices. Like maybe that person has a stunning effect and the status condition your crit weapon inflicted makes the stunning effect last long enough to stun lock the bad guy. Maybe the stun condition then allows your heavy hitter to sacrifice attack accuracy for higher damage, topping the bad guy's high soak/damage reduction.

And note that each of these benefits are useful on their own but you can find circumstances to chain them correctly against specific enemies for especially devastating effect.

And so on and so forth.
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Narratorway
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Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Narratorway » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:39 pm

This shit get's on mah tits...

Not properly walling off inappropriate content in your open world game.

This one's easy to mis-interpret, so I e'splain now for you:

In Mad Max, you begin in what's known as The Outer Graves, which is the game's tutorial region. Once you've completed the tutorial region, you begin the game proper and have free reign to go where you will*...but not to do whatever you want. You still gotta go through the story missions to get to get where you can overcome some of the obstacles the game presents you with, but it doesn't tell you that. Example:

There's special enemy vehicles wandering the wastes that the game says will net you an exceptional amount of cash if you can steal one and take it to a stronghold...but it presents this vehicle and instructions before the story mission that gives you a stronghold you can take it to...and these vehicles don't respawn. This means if you did what I did and grabbed one before you went to your first stronghold, you just burnt up a massive pile of valuable early-game money because there's nowhere to park it and the game autosaves.

Look, I get keeping content locked behind a story wall. I don't like it, but I get it, but ya gotta make sure it doesn't put the player in a position where if forces them to accept a loss/failure they couldn't prevent or reasonably predict.
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Supahewok

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Supahewok » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:04 am

It annoys me when a game doesn't make it obvious what limit your stats or abilities should have. I've picked up Divinity: Original Sin, and not only do I not know what max level is (although I'm guessing 20), I don't know what max there is on skill levels. This is especially bad because each level of skill costs more than the one before it, so you have to start saving up skill points between levels early on. Is Max skill 5? Is it 10? If I knew, I could take a guess at what level I should have my primary skills at this moment, and whether I could afford to diversify or if I need to only spend points in my characters' starting skills.

It's annoying since combat is proving to be no chump, even on Normal. The AI is decent, the encounters are fairly smart, and I'm usually outnumbered significantly.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Game pet peeves

Postby Daemian Lucifer » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:43 am

Supahewok wrote:(although I'm guessing 20),


20 is a soft cap,but there is enough xp to grind up to 23.

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