This week I have been mostly playing...

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SpammyV
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Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby SpammyV » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:43 am

POKEMON SUN! Alright, so, Hapu kinda kicked my ass. So began the process of grinding and finding someone else I could add to my team that'd be supereffective against Ground. It turns out that Alolan Raichu can learn Grass Knot and Mismagius can learn Energy Ball too. I... I really shouldn't have been surprised by the latter. The whole moveset is themed around "Ghost witch." Shooting plant energy should've been expected. I'm training up a Gastrodon now because it turns out that this game is really unfriendly to trying to train a Staryu. The level appropriate places to train are Route 13 and the desert- And both are actually terrible! The desert has Dugtrios, which can't be one-shot. Route 13 has Torkoals and Geodudes. The former sets the weather to Very Sunny and halves Water damage. The latter has Sturdy and can't be one-shot. None of it is good to bring your glass cannon to!

DARKWOOD! I hate it when ghosts touch my stuff.

SMITE! BACCHUS BACCHUS BACCHUS SHOTS SHOTS SHOTS SHOTS!

CASTLEVANIA: SIMON'S DESTINY! It's Castlevania 1, but remade in Doom's engine. Or Doom 2's engine. I don't know that much about these games. But I do know that I love some Castlevania. Castlevania 1 may have aged terribly, but this is actually a good fangame! Visually the game is great and the music remixes are fantastic too. I ended up turning on freelook quickly though. The autoaim for the whip really isn't all that when it comes to hitting bats and other small flying enemies, and aiming up is easier than timing the jumps.

Yes I know I'd have to jump to hit them in Castlevania 1 but in Castlevania 1 the whip would hang a bit and it was easier to hit bats anyway.

The whip's also got more range than you'd expect from a melee weapon in an FPS. I mean yeah it's a whip but it's a melee weapon in an FPS usually you have to be breathing on someone to him them.

The game is also appreciatively difficult. Not impossible but doable with learning the whip's range and where enemies are. Also learning where the all-important health pickup is in each level. Although, they did miss a golden opportunity by not having the message for picking up meat be "OH BOY! POT ROAST!"
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The Rocketeer

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby The Rocketeer » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:29 pm

SpammyV wrote:It's Castlevania 1, but remade in Doom's engine. Or Doom 2's engine.
Not much of a distinction to be made; DOOM II added very little to the first game but a handful of new monsters, some new environment textures, and the Super Shotgun.

Speaking of, I've just been playing DOOM, DOOM II, and the second DOOM. Whenever I've asked, "Why shouldn't I play DOOM again?" I've yet to come up with an answer. But I've been through the campaign enough that I've started trying to spice things up a bit. I already play on Hard (Ultra Violence), but I'm not interested in stepping up to Nightmare. So, once I've gone through picking all the weapon mods I thought were worse first; for most of the weapons, there is one I like much more than the other, but making myself play with the other a bit helped me see the value in the others. This time, I picked one mod for each weapon at random and barred myself from ever using the other. I'll have to come up with some new gimmick for DOOM, because I think fiddling with weapon mods has about hit its limit.

But after that, I went back to the original DOOM and finished up a playthrough I left hanging in the second episode some time ago, including the add-on fourth episode, Thy Flesh Consumed. That episode was actually sub-contracted, and not made by id.

Now, I've either never actually finished DOOM before or I just forgot, but the end text for the game is amazing check this out:
Romero or Carmack or whoever wrote: THE LOATHSOME SPIDERDEMON THAT
MASTERMINDED THE INVASION OF THE MOON
BASES AND CAUSED SO MUCH DEATH HAS HAD
ITS ASS KICKED FOR ALL TIME.

Why couldn't Samuel Hayden have said this at the end of DOOM 2016? I want my fucking money back. Besides that, probably as a joke regarding the rabbit head impaled on a spike shown in that end screen, the ending of Thy Flesh Consumed confirms that the doomguy went back into Hell to take revenge for the demons killing his pet rabbit, Daisy, and the related end image is again one of the greatest things I've seen. I think it also makes the episode John Wick 0.5, but nevermind that. I'd be tickled pink by some sort of subtle reference to Daisy cropping up in DOOM II II whenever it comes out, but I won't hold my breath.

Since, I've just started on DOOM II.
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Trix2000
Location: California

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby Trix2000 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:42 pm

SpammyV wrote:POKEMON SUN! Alright, so, Hapu kinda kicked my ass. So began the process of grinding and finding someone else I could add to my team that'd be supereffective against Ground.
Icetales. IIIIIIIIICETALES.

I don't think I had too many issues with her, but I'm actually not sure why when I consider what my team is like. To whit, I had:

- Incineroar - Fire = ground-weak
- Jolteon - Electric = ground-weak
- Lycanroc - Rock = ...ground-weak
- Ninetales - Ice = ground-weak!

And to top it off, Solgaleo is too, though don't think I had him yet. The only one in my existing crew that wasn't ground-weak was Dragonite, who I don't think I had by that point either.

...So yeah, I have no idea how I didn't get destroyed by her. I think it ended up a tricky fight, but it must not have been too terrible because I don't remember it well. I don't think I was over-leveled either.
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JadedDM

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby JadedDM » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:50 am

I started playing Dragonball Xenoverse lately. I made a red Namekian, my own OC character who is completely original (DO NOT STEAL) that I used to roleplay in an old chatroom almost 20 years ago, but since I cannot take screenshots on the PS3, I can't show off how cool he is. :(
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grahams_xwing
Location: Mansfield, UK

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby grahams_xwing » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:58 am

Cogmind.

A brilliant early access Rogue-like with elements of Mech warfare. Gorgeous dark colour pallet with neon highlight and lovely abstract combat graphics.

Bit of an issue with damage feedback - both for you and the enemies, but already a tense and frantic turn based game.
Utsey

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby Utsey » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:56 am

I've been playing Destiny on PC a lot lately. I'm enjoying it more than I expected. I do hope they fix a few issues with patches though.
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John

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby John » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:10 pm

I've still mostly been playing "make game prototypes with libGDX." As of last night, I have a rocket ship, some stars, a camera that tracks the rocket as it flies past the stars, and realistic-ish, Newtonian-type rocket controls. Now all I need is a game. And better everything. But mostly a game.

Other than that, I have mostly been playing Shadowrun: Hong Kong. I finished the bonus campaign with an old character. I have discovered a new favorite thing: pistols that shoot very small rockets rather than bullets. So much damage! Er, for a pistol that is. It's just too bad that even with the near-constant critical hits it can't quite match full-auto rifle damage. It came pretty close, though. It certainly rivaled Duncan's damage output. Of course, a properly designed player character ought to be able to outdo Duncan pretty easily. So maybe not. Eh, whatever. It's a pistol that shoots rocket bullets. I'll take it. Otherwise, the bonus campaign was easier than I remembered it being, undersea lab level aside. I think that this time I had more and better etiquettes and so I was able to skip a lot of combats that I couldn't the last time through. I was even able to talk the final boss into giving up and going away.

There are two endings to the bonus campaign, which I will now spoil somewhat vaguely. One is the "do what your fixer the Triad boss wants you to do" and the other is "finish the job your client blackmailed you into doing". The last time I finished the bonus campaign I went with the mob boss. This time I went with the client. Neither ending could be called a bad ending, but I think that "finish the job" is definitely the happier ending of the two. (Provided, of course, that you managed to get the best non-evil ending to the original campaign.) The first time through, I followed my fixer's orders because to do otherwise seemed like it could really screw over everyone in the party who wasn't Duncan. I sided with the client this time mostly out of curiosity. To my surprise, Gobbet and Is0bel seemed pretty cool with my decision. Strictly speaking, the real difference between the two endings is the wall of text you get before the credits roll. In one, you are a badass Shadowrunner working for the Triads. In the other, you're a (presumably) productive member of society who has a good relationship with his family. When I was younger and edgier--well, honestly, I was never edgy--I might have favored the first ending. In middle age, I find I rather like the second.
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Humanoid

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby Humanoid » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:22 am

Played the tutorial of Trails in the Sky. I'm not really feeling it yet, it feels kinda primitive even by 2004 standards, particularly in terms of the interface. I'm sure it'll pick up later since nothing could possibly be more mundane than clearing a sewer of "rats" (which look nothing like rats), but my biggest annoyance right now is that combat feels like busywork - prime offender being having to select a menu item to move, instead of it being the default context.

Sped through my third season of FM2017, getting Carlstad United promoted to the top tier of Swedish football on the same day real-life Sweden qualify for the World Cup, which was timely. Almost blew it by losing on the final matchday, but fortunately our only challenger managed a draw, resulting in us winning the league by a solitary point. Was inundated by job offers as a result of the reputation increase, but they were generally third-tier teams in big countries or second-tier teams in smaller countries, so I'll stick with what I have for the following season.

Tried some Saints Row 3 co-op, but whether this one continues is not up to me, since I've finished the game previously. It's pretty slim pickings for a good co-op game since I finished DOS2 last week.

And yeah, DOS2. Arx wasn't as bad as I was expecting it to be based on comments from the Internet, but it doesn't make it good. It wasn't horrible like the Nameless Isle which was a car-crash design disaster of a zone, but rather a glitchy mess of late-development crunch that nonetheless had some good moments. The final fight getting stuck because I one-shot the most important enemy made it a bit of an anti-climax though.
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Supahewok

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby Supahewok » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:44 am

I remember there being a niggle in the Trails in the Sky combat interface; it's really easy to activate whatever they call Overdrive. I'm trying to remember specifics, I think that the confirmation key is the same button for both Overdrive and the regular options, but the game sometimes defaults to highlighting the Overdrive without you realizing it so that you accidentally activate it when trying to mash the regular attack. And what makes it really bad is that I don't think you can cancel the Overdrive at all, even if you have an intermediate step such as selecting an area to target.

I think my problem was that it was my mouse highlighting the Overdrive button, which I never noticed cuz I only used to keyboard for combat? Sorry, it's been a year I think.
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The Rocketeer

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby The Rocketeer » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:21 pm

Finished DOOM II. It is a game much like DOOM, but the levels are different and there's a II on the end of the title. Once more, I am greatly tickled by the brilliant end text of the game. Behold:
DOOM II wrote: YOU'VE DONE IT. THE INVASION IS OVER.
EARTH IS SAVED. HELL IS A WRECK. YOU
WONDER WHERE BAD FOLKS WILL GO WHEN THEY
DIE, NOW.


Apropos of... well, that, I guess, but otherwise nothing, I have a bone to pick about DOOM 2016. Or really, more of a bone to pick with some of the coverage I remember around launch. When the game was fresh out, no end of glory was heaped on the game for clever characterization of the doomguy, specifically the scene in the prologue where Samuel Hayden is talking and doomguy shoves the monitor out of his way. It was supposed to convey both that doomguy didn't give a rats ass about what was going on except that there were demons to kill, didn't want to listen to Hayden and, on a gameplay level, that the game was going to be something of a throwback, with bare emphasis on plot and cutscenes and more on blasting demons, which was all doomguy was really concerned with.

Now, like I said, almost all of this specific praise focused on that particular scene in the prologue, which is convenient because that's about the same moment that characterization stops holding the kind of weight you'd have expected from all the hay made over it at the time. Actually, in hindsight it's pretty clear that doomguy just shoved that monitor out of the way at the start because it literally didn't have any information on it, not that he didn't care about it, meaning the popular interpretation of that one critical scene was pretty much off-base from conception; your first self-motivated task afterward is to find the information you couldn't get there from someplace else. Actually it's finding that information (the general status of the facility and, by extension, of the demon invasion) that sets up the first of the actual really good scenes. Hayden locks you in the computer room, giving some exposition and, observing your belligerent reluctance to assist, bribes you with both the information you were after and the first Argent sphere. This establishes early the relationship between doomguy and Hayden; you both want to stop the demons, but Hayden has other motives you don't share. You have the muscle he lacks, and he has capabilities and information you need, and is willing to use both carrot and stick to try and coerce you. It's good stuff, sez I, but do note that you are literally locked into a room while two robots bark exposition at you, which should already blow away the much-publicized perception of how the game handles agency and storytelling. And while this is in the first act, while the audience is still most receptive to meting exposition this way, it actually gets more heavy-handed from here.

The scenes in which doomguy is traversing the Argent facility smashing all the converters rather than simply switching them off is all golden. They're quick (which matters), they show exactly what doomguy, personally, is doing, and conveys why he's doing that, while contrasting him with Hayden. You also get to see your character smash something shiny, which is nice. But more importantly, every scene in which you encounter Olivia Pierce is a moment where the doomguy apparently stands slackjawed and just lets the main antagonist carry on with her plan unhindered. The camera always pans away, not showing what doomguy is doing or thinking, if anything, and instead focuses on Pierce carrying out whatever she's doing unhindered.

As far as I can remember, this happens three times. First, when she's setting the Argent Tower to overload. That time, she's behind some sort of glass in a control room, slowly doing Minority Report-style holographic computer arm-wavey stuff. Now, you could at least reason that you can't get into the control room or break the glass with any of your weapons to stop her, but you don't have control of doomguy at the time to try it, and they don't show doomguy pounding on the glass or the door or anything to demonstrate that you're just SOL at that point. The second time is the worst: you've stopped the overload for the moment, but Pierce is taking an Argent accumulator to chuck into the Mass Effect 3 Synthesis beam at the top of the Crucible. You run into her at the base of the tower, dragging that heavy-ass accumulator slowly across another glassed-in control room while doomguy again sits and picks the armor out of his asscrack doing nothing to stop it. Once you get control back, you can see that the doors on either side of the control room are busted, and can be ripped open in a second. So this was apparently a moment where doomguy could easily have barreled through the doors while Olivia strains her lower back (or her icky exo-suit's lumbar servos, I guess), blown her into dogfood with the super shotgun, and stopped the plot in its tracks right there, ending the demon invasion on Mars before it kicks into gear. But no, this is the second "hero does nothing while enemy completes their plan behind impenetrable window" scene, which I just wanna go on record recognizing as the absolute laziest cliche of on-rails video game expository devices. The third and last scene is at the top of the tower, where you throw open the giant doors just in time to see Pierce throw herself into the beam to convert all life in the Milky Way into cyborgs somehow rupture the accumulator and open a permanent hole into Hell. Now, I can understand that there's probably nothing you can do to stop the accumulator from opening the Hell portal at this point no matter what you do, but it's also the one time where there's literally nothing between you and Olivia. And I do wanna note that, portal or no portal, merging Olivia with the Spider Mastermind at the finale is apparently important to the demons. But again, instead of using the ample opportunity and his brand-new gauss rifle to convert Olivia into a cloud of molecules on her way into Hell, he is instead paralyzed by the revelation that he cannot pick his nose through his helmet.

So that's three pitches, three strikes. Adding insult to injury is the moment after you return from Hell after being pulled in with Olivia, and end up in Samuel Hayden's office. Or, as I like to call it, the "Go get you a bowl of soup" portion of the game. After standing by while Sammy leisurely walks his shiny twelve-foot-tall can down the hall (this is acceptable the first time, since it's your first chance to scrutinize Hayden in person, especially his unexpected size), you have to remember not to lock your knees while he wears out his voicebox droning on about the Citadel the Conduit the Crucible oh wait, it is the Crucible. This is right after he surprise-implants you with the dimensional tether, which both hurt like a motherfucker and gave Hayden a measure of bodily control over you. Now, you do need his assistance to complete your goal of stopping the demons. But all the best stuff earlier in the game played up the uneasy, uncooperative relationship between you and Hayden while illustrating doomguy's own agency in spectacular fashion. Now, by contrast, you are literally on Hayden's leash, stuck in his office while he talks for a relative epoch.

This hardly ruins the game, now. It's a superficial scuff on a thing of ghastly beauty. After Samuel Hayden's Office Monologue of Player Sandwich Acqusition, you're off to the Lazarus Labs and you're pretty much on the rails all the way to the finale, with all the stakes set and no more real exposition to dole out. But I think the whole first half or so of the game to this point solidly puts to lie the huge hubbub of incredibly narrowly-focused gladhanding of the game's refreshingly liberating characterization and what many seemed to joyfully accept as a bold-yet-implicit upfront statement of intent going forward.

On a lighter note, you are HUGE, you must have HUGE GUTS
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Ringwraith

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby Ringwraith » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:18 am

Considering about three minutes after the initial shoving the screen away at the start of Doom 4 though, there's another attempt of Hayden to try and chat in the lift, which just has looking at the corpse under the communication panel when saying "things have clearly gotten out of hand", followed by cracking knuckles and punching said panel.
It's pretty clearly what he thinks of Hayden's opening spiel, when you combine this with the previous response at attempts to explain.

Also, for kinda fun thematically-combining-of-actions-as-we-don't-have-enough-buttons, on controller, interact in melee are the same button. Which is mostly how he interacts with things anyway, hitting them.
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Supahewok

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby Supahewok » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:23 am

Also I seem to recall way more talk about smashing the first plot device thing than just hitting the monitors.
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Ringwraith

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby Ringwraith » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:42 am

The animation for the last one gets me, where there's a pause, then just kicks it to bits anyway.
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The Rocketeer

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby The Rocketeer » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:35 am

Supahewok wrote:Also I seem to recall way more talk about smashing the first plot device thing than just hitting the monitors.
That stuff is actually the best stuff. I probably didn't emphasize enough how great it is, and how much I like seeing it every time.

As for what was more talked about, I can't really argue. No one's going to appear and say, "I am the miraculously-embodied consensus of two months of the previous year, fite me irl." Just how I remember it. Nevertheless, I do think the Pierce scenes and the "Even Deep-Browed Homer Nods in Sambot's Office" scene outweigh the rest. My larger point is that, when they make DOOM II II, I hope they have more of the interesting, fun, active, spectacular, mildly-subversive sort of characterization and less of "villain slowly accomplishes goal behind glass" and "robot exposits at length in small, closed room."
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SpammyV
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Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby SpammyV » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:57 am

Man, I've been really trying to keep to a "One or nothing" approach in Castlevania: Simon's Destiny, only using the autosave points the game gives: One at the start of the level and one right before the boss door. Not save scumming through each room or anything. But it's getting real hard in The Dungeons, because the difficulty takes a sharp ratchet upwards. The rooms start to have trickier layouts, offering you less room to dash through the melee swarm and get to the skeletons or axe knights. Or adding in the traditionally undying red skeletons to distract you while axe knights are pelting you from a ledge. Not to mention that the first leg of The Dungeons is actually uncharaceristically generous with health while the second leg, which is way harder, has nothing until you get to the end- And this is the part that's almost all red skeletons and axe knights on ledges.

Also speaking of ledges, the axe is a terrible subweapon in Simon's Destiny. In 2D Castlevania games a weapon that tosses in an arc and can potentially hit multiple times is great, but in this FPS it's a weapon that has to arc but doesn't have a huge hitbox so you're never aiming it where you want it to go. Yeah sure it bounces on the ground and probably does more damage than other throwing subweapons but guess what it has to hit to deal damage. Compare this to the cross, which goes right where you aim it and bounces off of walls to set up trick shots. Or the dagger, which is actually a spread of three fast-moving daggers.

What I'm getting at is that axes are terrible and I'd rather have any other subweapon than one.

Anyway I haven't actually seen how long the third leg (looks it's a castle full of monsters they can have three legs) of The Dungeons is because it's halls of sine-waving Medusa heads from both sides while axe knights are trying to rip your face off. I haven't managed to bolt through it yet- Although from where I die I can see there's a health drop. Feels like I've got the devil Dracula why is Dracula telling me this telling me I need to break my one rule to get through.
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Narratorway
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Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby Narratorway » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:17 pm

Honestly, making the axe a shit-tier sub weap sounds in keeping with Castlevania tradition.
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The Rocketeer

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby The Rocketeer » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:47 pm

The axe has always had two very specific uses: to hit enemies flying overhead that tend to retreat out of regular attack range but easily into axe range, OR, to hit enemies with very large sprites that obviate the need to carefully aim AND will allow each use of the axe to hit multiple times.

And I think if you mastered the axe in Portrait of Ruin, you threw two axes for the cost of one, which isn't a bad deal. Don't take my word for that, though.
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SpammyV
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Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby SpammyV » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:14 am

Man this really hasn't been my week.

CASTLEVANIA: SIMON'S DESTINY! Still stalled, the jump between the first leg of The Dungeons and the second leg is so high it's not even a guarantee I'll get through the second leg after repeated tries because axe knights are that much of a pain.

DARKWOOD! Man... This game's a little frustrating now. There's not a lot of improvement or progression, and it turns into a lot of "Do the same thing with the same tools in the same locations." And nights are just a chore. There's no defense. Barricades don't matter because a barricade can't hold ONE baddie out for an entire night. Piling furniture doesn't actually do anything, they can push it out easily. You can't hide, barricades are goddamn pointless, so unless you just really need the reward from surviving a night there's no point to it. Stash all your stuff in the workbench and just get it over with fast. Sure you're missing out on some creatively spooky sequences but if you're going to die why not just get it over with fast? And sure there's Ironman mode but unless it pulls a Metro and makes all the monsters die in one hit, I'm not going to make it harder to get through a chore.

Which sucks because the atmosphere is fantastic and I love all the tripping-your-balls-off scenes and there's a lot that's really good.

POKEMON SUN! I forgot to plug my 3DS in and looked over to see all the lights were off. As it turns out I lost everything from beating Guzma in the mansion to beating Hapu. So... joy. On the plus side I guess now I know I need to grind some before starting the gauntlet. And I could get a Goomy a little earlier I guess.
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The Rocketeer

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby The Rocketeer » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:04 am

I actually got so annoyed not being able to remember that I went and checked: you don NOT get two axes per throw after mastering the subweapon in Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin. You just throw a big friggin' axe.

SpammyV wrote:As it turns out I lost everything from beating Guzma in the mansion to beating Hapu. So... joy.
Just think: any Pokémon you caught in that time simply cease to exist, and even if you catch the same species, name them the same, and train them the same, they aren't the same, and you'll know, and, somehow, they'll know, too, and you'll all never not know.

Played through The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds over the last few days. I think most anyone that cares has already hashed this one out pretty thoroughly, so I'll be brief.

-Did not like the rental system. More accurately, didn't like the way the rest of the game was necessarily structured around it, in a way that made it generally dull and bland.
-Did not like reusing the map/world of A Link to the Past so directly. It made it weird. It made it weird, and they didn't do nearly enough with it that they could have.
-The game generally lacked any kind of charm, humor, or wit that the handheld Zelda titles usually have, at least as far back as Minish Cap. Although I haven't played all of them, so maybe I'm skewed.
-I liked the idea of Link/Zelda/Ganon(dorf) having inverse counterparts in Lorule. That's a clever idea, and something I've kinda picked over mentally for a while now. But this doesn't get properly introduced until the finale, and is consequently kinda pointless, falling into the "not what it could have been" bucket above. If it's possible for a Zelda title to be underwritten, this is what that looks like.
-Not to pretend for a second that the Zelda canon/world isn't a giant joke played entirely for convenience, but what the hell is going on here, anyway? Whatever.

Here's a headscratcher. At the end, according to Link and Zelda's wish, the Hyrule Triforce remakes Lorule's Triforce. So is Lorule's new Triforce a lesser, shitty Triforce knockoff? Or is the original Triforce capable of producing a copy of itself exactly as potent as itself? I mean, sure it's a capricious amoral god-artifact, but is there anything the Triforce can't do? Can the Triforce create a boulder so heavy that the Triforce is incapable of lifting it? *sounds of Rocko's head imploding* And Link and Zelda both touched the thing at the same time. Now, they did have the same wish apparently, but the Triforce seems to have very specific, important, unclear rules that change all the time about who can use it and how, so they were basically flipping a coin that they wouldn't be forced to fight to the death with their bare hands, torn atom from atom, or combined into a single, insane oversoul whose dysphoric, deific agony twisted all existence. Zelda should probably have just let Link do it himself, like she initially suggested, but between you and me, I've suspected since Ocarina of Time that the Triforce of Wisdom might be what we call a "placebo."

I was kinda hoping to keep the "superlative 3DS successors to classic Nintendo titles" train going after the masterpiece that was Metroid: Samus Returns, but A Link Between Worlds is a thoroughly "meh" entry, and I honestly don't recommend it unless you can borrow it or find it really cheap somehow.
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Trix2000
Location: California

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby Trix2000 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:18 pm

SpammyV wrote:POKEMON SUN! I forgot to plug my 3DS in and looked over to see all the lights were off. As it turns out I lost everything from beating Guzma in the mansion to beating Hapu. So... joy. On the plus side I guess now I know I need to grind some before starting the gauntlet. And I could get a Goomy a little earlier I guess.
Do you not save often? It's so much faster in the new games so I end up doing it almost constantly sometimes.

The Rocketeer wrote:Just think: any Pokémon you caught in that time simply cease to exist, and even if you catch the same species, name them the same, and train them the same, they aren't the same, and you'll know, and, somehow, they'll know, too, and you'll all never not know.
You're eeeeeeevil.

Played through The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds over the last few days...
Eh, I didn't quite have the same experience. I still felt the game lacked... something, but on the whole I didn't feel like the experience was too bad. The rental system was weird but kind-of ignorable to me, barely noticed reusing the map (maybe it's been long enough since I last played LttP... or it varied just enough for me in look), and the writing felt... serviceable at least. It managed to take a couple steps above "a fun but uninspired Zelda game" for me, but that could very well be a matter of preferences. I do tend to be more forgiving of certain things than I maybe should be.

Here's a headscratcher...
I know thinking about things too much is kind-of your thing (and mine too, tbh), but this is thinking about things too much. :P
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The Rocketeer

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby The Rocketeer » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:25 pm

Trix2000 wrote:I know thinking about things too much is kind-of your thing...
Point of order: I think about things exactly the right amount. Honestly, I think the end just stuck out to me because almost that exact scenario is a key hypothetical in one of the longest-standing paradoxes of the limits of omnipotence (My favorite variation being, "Could God cook a bowl of chili so hot even He could not eat it?"). It would be like if Spirit Tracks posed a canonical solution to the famous Trolley Problem. (I haven't played Spirit Tracks, so if it actually did this, I take back everything I've insinuated about the series' writing.)

I should probably note that my seeming disappointment with A Link Between Worlds is in part down to me being a huge cheapskate; it isn't a bad game, but it wasn't by any means forty dollars good. I don't think any of its gimmicks really worked, but it's actually sort of impressive how clever the dungeons managed to be in spite of the rather severe design limitations directly attributable to the rental system. My main problem— unmentioned in the above— is that none of the boss fights were fun. If the game just had two or three really fun or clever bosses, I'd turn right around on it, but there were too many direct repeats of A Link to the Past, no great original bosses, and zero interesting minibosses, which is a huge disappointment. My favorite boss was the Giant Rupee Helmasaur, but that was one of the very first Lorule bosses I fought, and it was all downhill from there.
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Narratorway
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Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby Narratorway » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:36 pm

The Rocketeer wrote:Zelda should probably have just let Link do it himself, like she initially suggested, but between you and me, I've suspected since Ocarina of Time that the Triforce of Wisdom might be what we call a "placebo."


Y'know now that you mention it, I was always kinda mildly peeved they made the main antagonist of the series the wielder of one the pieces...but never actually did anything with that.

I mentioned in another thread about a FFIX LP, but they've since moved on to Cave Story...which got me to playing the game as well. I actually can't remember if I have a purchased version, but I've still got the original game when it was freeware and wonder of wonders it runs on modern systems...which I don't remember it doing when I booted it up a couple months ago. Well, whatevs, it's a gud game 'n I'm having a fun time of it.

Because I haven't gotten to the Sanctuary yet...
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SpammyV
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Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby SpammyV » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:07 pm

What are the rules of the Triforce? I mean it grants wishes or something if you touch it but I thought the only actual rule was "Don't let Ganon touch this."

I don't think that Spirit Tracks tried to solve the trolley problem, although I believe the Spirit Tracks approach would be Zelda smacking Link on the backside of his head and going "Just stop the train!"

Also, my name is SpammyV and Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks were both fine games with hilarious writing.
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The Rocketeer

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby The Rocketeer » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:02 am

For the most part, I only really remember there being explicit rules for the Triforce in Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time, and in neither one does it really make sense. In Link to the Past, gaining the Triforce is supposed to grant your heart's wish, but when Ganon gets it, it kinda tries to spite him by taking a really legalistic version of the "reflects your heart" wording and changing the Golden Land into the Dark World. From there, Ganon developed his plan to just invade the real Hyrule. But then when Link gets it later, he can totally roll back all the things Ganon did in real Hyrule, as opposed to just reflecting his heart in the Sacred Realm. At this point, there was no trio of Triforce wielders, no concept of the Goddesses or the meaning of the three parts of the Triforce. Ganon just straight up had the whole thing and Link and Zelda were destined to stop him because something something the sages and prophecy, not because they possessed parts of the Triforce or whatever.

In Ocarina, Link manages to open the big door that's supposed to be the entrance to the Sacred Realm. But then instead of actually entering the Sacred Realm he just touches the Master Sword, and the Triforce is like, "Nah kid, must be this tall to enter," and puts him to sleep. So is it touching the Master Sword that actually takes you to the Sacred Realm? Did Ganondorf touch the sword to enter the Sacred Realm and get the Triforce? Except Link had the sword, and was kicked out of the world, apparently? Makes me want to see a game where Ganondorf obtains the Master Sword, instead of or in addition to the Triforce. So if G-dawg didn't have to touch the sword, did he just go straight to the Sacred Realm and the Triforce upon going through the Door of Time, and if he did, why didn't Link? It's stated that the Triforce actively prevented Link from gaining the Triforce or the Master Sword because he was too young or whatever, even though it just... let Ganondorf have have it. The living embodiment of evil ambition passes muster, but not a pure-hearted-yet-potentially-irresponsible kid? What the fuck did the Triforce think kid Link would do with it that was so bad that it should just let fucking Ganondorf have it to destroy Hyrule in the meantime? Is there any reasonable doubt that Link would have wished for anything but for Ganondorf to fuck off, preventing disaster before it had a chance to occur? The Triforce effectively dictates Ganondorf obtaining it. But then when Ganondorf does get it, it again pussies out from letting Ganondorf have the whole thing and pulls the whole "split into three" thing out of its celestial ass, which does nothing to prevent Ganondorf from ruling Hyrule as a tyrant for the better part of a generation.

I think it's worth asking: is the Triforce retarded?

Coincidentally, Ocarina of Time was the birth of the now-solidified idea that Link, Zelda and Ganondorf intrinsically bore or manifested one element of the Triforce each, an idea of dubious value which in turn opened Skyward Sword up to retconning some really awful ideas about the origin of the three characters and the cycle of reincarnation/recapitulation on down the road.

Then, regarding my question about what the fuck is supposed to be going on in A Link Between Worlds. In A Link to the Past, Ganondorf's evil heart turned the Golden Land into a dark mirror of Hyrule. Then in A Link Between Worlds, they invent the concept of Lorule, a parallel Hyrule that resembles the Dark World version of the Golden Land almost precisely. Additionally, they state early on that the Triforce of Power was still trapped with Ganon where he was defeated and sealed away, which was, of course, in the Golden Land. And Ganon turns out to be in Lorule. So Lorule is the Golden Land, right? Well, no. Ganon's warped Dark World emerged relatively recently in Hyrule's long history, whereas Lorule has apparently paralleled Hyrule for all time. Then at the end, it turns out that Lorule and Hyrule do, indeed, each have their own Sacred Realm where the Triforce rests. So apparently Ganon's Dark World was reverted back into the regular Sacred Realm, and he... ended up in the pre-existing Lorule, which is almost exactly like his Dark World, with his piece of the Triforce. *sounds of Rocko's sanity collapsing* Also, it turns out that the Triforce must exist because reality will literally collapse if it isn't in the Sacred Realm anchoring its continued existence.

(!!Existential Headcanon Rant Ahead!!)

Ever since, I dunno, Wind Waker I guess, I've regarded Hyrule as basically cursed, and Link, Zelda, and Ganon as particularly cursed. This interpretation of mine has advanced with basically every new Zelda title in some way, and A Link Between Worlds moves it a BIG step forward. I don't know what the original text is, but in the English translation, A Link to the Past ends with stating that the Golden Land was sealed away, and the Master Sword slept forevermore. To me, even before any official recognition of a unified timeline emerged, this ending gave the series license to bring Ganon back as much as it wanted, because in the back of your mind, you had that safety-valve of knowing that, eventually, in the limitless expanse of time, Ganon would eventually be defeated once and for all, the Triforce would bless Hyrule with prosperity everlasting, and no more would a hero ever have cause to take up the Master Sword. A Link Between Worlds throws that out and basically confirms that Hyrule is just doomed to be periodically destroyed or enslaved by the living embodiment of evil for ever and ever. Simultaneously, the embodiment of evil in the world is literally undefeatable in the long view because he's an avatar of the anchor of reality itself, which can't be destroyed without destroying reality, and will forever reincarnate Ganon as long as it exists. And though we know terrible wars have continually been fought over it, it's never been demonstrated that anyone seeking the Triforce for their own purposes has ever obtained it except Ganon, a being incapable of using it except for malevolence; as a failsafe, the Triforce will stymie Ganon's wishes to some degree, but even though it explicitly possesses its own will, the Triforce is either unwilling to, or incapable of, simply not letting Ganon obtain it or refusing to grant his wishes. Thereafter, Link and Zelda seem incapable of using it except to restore a status quo in which Ganon's obtaining it will inevitably recur. Thus, obtaining the supposedly all-powerful Triforce has never resulted in a lasting supremacy for anyone who once held it, for good or ill; the artifact is apparently incapable of defying the infinite cycle which its own existence enforces, and it is therefore incapable of fulfilling the only purpose for which its power is ever invoked.

On that note, the Trio are particularly and personally cursed to suffer eternally and to not even truly embody their own elements of the Triforce. Ganon, who desires only power, will only ever gain enough to spread misery and destruction, but never enough to prevent his own defeat. Zelda possesses enough wisdom to foresee disasters she is incapable of preventing herself, yet frequently creates her own undoing through carelessness. Link is the only one willing to face Ganon personally, but possesses no actual agency, capable solely of restoring the status quo at the urging of others, never pre-empting, improving or defying that status quo by his own will. They will suffer this futile and purposeless deadlock forever, eternally denied the only thing each of them truly wants, as the victims of indifferent or incompetent gods.

Eat your heart out, NieR: Automata! The whole Zelda series is basically No Exit with elves.
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John

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Postby John » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:31 am

Speaking as a man who hasn't played a Zelda game since the very first one, the idea that Zelda games now have plot and lore and that these things somehow matter is utterly baffling to me.

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