Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

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Lachlan the Sane
Location: I come from the land down under, where women blow and men chunder

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby Lachlan the Sane » Mon May 08, 2017 2:54 pm

Trix2000 wrote:
Lachlan the Sane wrote:Wow, Giovanni's team is actually kinda lousy at this point. I mean, the Kangaskhan is a monster, but other than that all he has are a couple of Rock/Ground pokemon, which is one of the worst type combos in the game. If you have a Grass or Water-type, you can burn down the first two Pokemon in a few seconds and then beat the Kangaskhan by attrition (which is exactly what you did).

And Giovanni was another one, mostly because Ground is a terrible type to have IMO. Venusaur and Blastoise could practically solo him in most of his encounters.

Ground-types have their upsides, but Rock/Ground specifically is one of the most common type combos in the game, and nearly half of the Ground-type Pokemon in Gen I are Rock/Ground (you have 6 pure-Ground types, 6 Rock/Ground, and 2 Ground/Poison).
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SpammyV
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Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby SpammyV » Mon May 08, 2017 5:37 pm

Trix2000 wrote:A little trickier when he's the gym leader (I... really hope I don't need to spoiler that), but mostly just due to levels if I recall. Also Fissure, but the accuracy on it is crap so it's just RNG if he can actually use it.


Dude! Spoilers! You have to tag that kind of stuff man.

Also mentioning Blastoise and Venusaur brought to mind how Ambrose isn't going to start evolving until the point where someone playing normally would have a Blastoise already. These runs are weird and great about having to work around these different evolution and power curves.
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SpammyV
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Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby SpammyV » Sun May 14, 2017 3:14 pm

So I realized I was doing that thing again where I was dropping mecha references that the uncultured masses general audience wouldn't get so uh. Sorry.

Noriko Takaya is the protagonist of Gunbuster and the name inspiration for the Noriko on my team. Kazumi Amano is her partner/mentor/big sister figure. The name still fits, Ojou is a title for a refined, aristocratic young lady and the dreamy graceful perfect Kazumi fits that bill. And yes I did go to the Name Rater just to make more mecha references official.

Image
Noriko on the left, Kazumi on the right.

I don't know why you'd be surprised at me being a giant nerd. But also it's

UPDATE 24! Don't throw the game, throw Pokeballs instead!
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The Rocketeer

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby The Rocketeer » Mon May 15, 2017 6:37 am

I think we can put "Don't say a word! You wanted this!" in the large and ever-growing list of terrible Pokémon pick-up lines, along with "Are you a boy? Or a girl?", "I'll smell you later," and "I like shorts, they're comfy and easy to wear!"

The LP wrote:Rocket Goon: "My life as a criminal makes me feel so alive!"
Spamira V.: "Better hold on to that feeling then."
Oh, come on! That's totally a death threat! You're totally planning to Death Wish that guy!

Apropos of... well, kinda that one person bringing up Brock, but mostly nothing, I always kinda liked the idea that Gym Leaders mostly all have their own top-tier teams, but they challenge trainers with what they thing is appropriate for their skill level. So Brock might have a Lv. 48 Rhydon and a Lv. 50 Golem in reserve, but when you roll up with a baby turtle and a malnourished bird, he sends out the Geodude he caught last week and the Onix he's been rehabilitating after its last trainer couldn't take care of it to make sure the greenhorn knows what a "hard counter" is. Later games kind of embraced this idea, and let you re-battle Gym Leaders later on at some higher, standardized end- or post-game level... although, the makeup of those rematch teams tend to imply it's mostly the same team before, just leveled up.

But then, it wouldn't make sense that they'd give you their badge, which should be a reward for trainers that best them in a serious, even competition. But then again, this falls into "thinking literally about Pokémon," which still isn't ever a good use of time.
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Retsam

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby Retsam » Mon May 15, 2017 2:28 pm

The Rocketeer wrote:But then, it wouldn't make sense that they'd give you their badge, which should be a reward for trainers that best them in a serious, even competition. But then again, this falls into "thinking literally about Pokémon," which still isn't ever a good use of time.


I've wasted time thinking about this too, and my head-canon is that the Pokemon League is designed to be increasingly difficult and that each gym leader is instructed to scale down their team based on the number of badges you have. Probably just by having their Pokemon pull their punches, rather than by having 8 different teams of unique Pokemon.

Of course, like most fanon, this is directly contradicted by the games: Kogas team doesn't change depending on whether or not you've beaten Sabrina first, for example, but it makes more sense than the alternatives.

---

I wonder with the success of Breath of the Wild if we'll eventually see the "open-world" Pokemon game that people have been suggesting for ages; it'd need a system like this.
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SpammyV
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Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby SpammyV » Mon May 15, 2017 10:29 pm

Before you get too into how kind Brock is for taking in a poor mistreated rescue Onix, I'd like to remind you of something.

This freaking vicious thing wrote:Image Image


So how would wild Pokemon levels work then in the hypothetical open world game? Because as it stands the leveling and progression are a major part of the mainline Pokemon RPGs. And how would gym leaders scale? Because Pokemon have different power curves, couldn't you just exploit the system by bolting to wherever the Gym Leader's Pokemon are going to be weakest at level 14?

I'll be honest I've always been skeptical when people start throwing out their dream open-world Pokemon game or Pokemon MMO idea.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby The Rocketeer » Mon May 15, 2017 10:39 pm

SpammyV wrote:*Flashback to Rock-type Onix owning an Ice type*
The Rocketeer wrote:[Brock] sends out... Onix... to make sure the greenhorn knows what a "hard counter" is.
Learnt you good, eh, greenhorn?

SpammyV wrote:I'll be honest I've always been skeptical when people start throwing out their dream open-world Pokemon game or Pokemon MMO idea.
Seconded. Regardless of what one could be, Game Freak just hasn't ever expressed any interest in making Pokémon anything other than what it is, aside from modest spin-offs like Mystery Dungeon. It makes for fun idle chatter as long as everyone understands that it's just bong-talk, and not some obvious, no-hassle endless pot of money Game Freak is naively leaving on the table.
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Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby Trix2000 » Tue May 16, 2017 10:00 pm

The Rocketeer wrote:Seconded. Regardless of what one could be, Game Freak just hasn't ever expressed any interest in making Pokémon anything other than what it is, aside from modest spin-offs like Mystery Dungeon. It makes for fun idle chatter as long as everyone understands that it's just bong-talk, and not some obvious, no-hassle endless pot of money Game Freak is naively leaving on the table.
Yeah, an MMO or similar sounds great in one's head ("I get to live in the Poke-world and do what I want!"), but in practice it's either not feasible or not all that fun. In my own case, I need only look at how I usually handle the postgame of the main series - mostly, my motivation evaporates without some clear interesting suggestions or goals to work towards. Trying to create that in an open free world would be difficult, if it's even possible to reasonably make something like that.

...Although that said, I really would love more along the lines of Colosseum and XD (moreso the latter). As much as I like the main series games, I've always felt disappointed that they kept so much to the same themes and progression, primarily with the "beat all the gyms and Elite Four to be the Pokemon Champion" (with a sidestory involving some evil team which might be interesting but always seems less of a focus). More recent games have slowly improved this - from improving the writing and making the side story more compelling, to Sun/Moon actually varying up the gym format a bunch - but at its core it still feels like the same adventure, the same journey.

(Although this is good in a sense that I always know what I'll be getting in the main games, which I do still love playing through... once or twice.)

What I really want is something that is fundamentally different on a story/goal/adventure level. Something where the focus isn't just on getting stronger and proving yourself, but perhaps something more meaningful. Maybe introduce some new twists to how Pokemon handle/battle that tie into the plot (like Shadow Pokemon).

...Maybe I just want a good Pokemon game that feels more akin to your average JRPG adventure instead of, like, Monster Rancher or something. Or just an updated XD sequel might be nice (all double battles is pretty neat).
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Retsam

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby Retsam » Wed May 17, 2017 3:50 pm

Oh yeah, I think an MMO is still a unlikely pipe dream from people who haven't thought about how complex that would be. Similarly the suggestions that Gamefreak just needs to release a game with all the regions, as if developing 6-8x as much content for the game would somehow be a good business move for them.

But something more akin to a standard Pokemon game with the rails taken off is something that I think is within the realm of possibility (even if I wouldn't go so far as to call it "likely"), in the same vein that Breath of the Wild was "Zelda with the rails taken off" rather than being an "MMO Zelda". (BoTW also required a ridiculous amount of content; but that's largely because it's exploration/puzzle based; I don't think a railless Pokemon game would actually need significantly more content)

You'd have to do something with the leveling system, (just bumping the levels of everything once you beat a gym would probably work, though there would be more interesting possibilities for that system, too), but the freedom to explore the world in any order, rather than following the usually not-so-subtle railroad tracks, I think could be a cool feature, and would add some diversity to playthroughs: you could actually do something like this Lets Play - running through the game with a dramatically different team than normal - without needing to cheat. If I wanted a particular Pokemon, I could beeline for that area and have that Pokemon on my team for most of the game, rather than having to wait until I got far enough down the rails.

Like I said, I don't think this is particularly likely to ever happen; GameFreak has been exceedingly conservative with the games formula, but I enjoy thinking about ways it could be switched up and hijacking Spammy's LP threads.
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Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby Trix2000 » Wed May 17, 2017 8:18 pm

Retsam wrote:But something more akin to a standard Pokemon game with the rails taken off is something that I think is within the realm of possibility (even if I wouldn't go so far as to call it "likely"), in the same vein that Breath of the Wild was "Zelda with the rails taken off" rather than being an "MMO Zelda". (BoTW also required a ridiculous amount of content; but that's largely because it's exploration/puzzle based; I don't think a railless Pokemon game would actually need significantly more content)
I think some elements of this would be interesting, but I have other concerns with player goals and motivation that would need to be addressed before I'd be that interested. For me, open world games work better when I have some clear options I could follow, and just catching and raising a particular team doesn't seem like enough incentive to me (I kinda do that in a new game anyways, just with a specified order).

Though if they could expand on the sorts of things you could find out exploring (more than just new pokemon, trainers, and items) it might work better for me. I think BoTW works because it has a lot of distinct acitivites and rewards you are encouraged to go for (I think, I still have not gotten around to playing it), and I feel Pokemon would need to come up with some new frameworks in a similar fashion to do this. Challenging, but not impossible to conceive.

If I wanted a particular Pokemon, I could beeline for that area and have that Pokemon on my team for most of the game, rather than having to wait until I got far enough down the rails.
This is definitely a plus for me, as I do have some serious preferences for what I actually use in a team (<.<). Even better if it ended up like X/Y with a very large selection of older generation Pokemon alongside whatever new ones they come up with (or even no new ones... I feel like we have plenty as it is).

That said, it wouldn't be a huge selling point to me on its own. More of a convenience/preference factor attached to whatever game as a whole they could come up with.

Like I said, I don't think this is particularly likely to ever happen; GameFreak has been exceedingly conservative with the games formula, but I enjoy thinking about ways it could be switched up and hijacking Spammy's LP threads.
Well, they have been shaking things up with the last generation or two, so it's not completely out there. But yeah, I don't see it being that likely.

Then again, BoTW kind-of surprised me with how well it handled and adapted to an open-world concept considering the series' history. Granted, that game type is better suited for it... but still, who knows?
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The Rocketeer

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby The Rocketeer » Thu May 18, 2017 1:44 am

*psst* I'm reading the Team Update you haven't posted yet, right now.
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SpammyV
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Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby SpammyV » Thu May 18, 2017 2:11 am

I, too, would appreciate more flexibility in Pokemon, without needing to go full-open world. And getting away from "GONNA BEAT ALL DA GYMS AND BE DA POKEMON CHAMPION." Which I think they've really been trying to get away from, at least since Platinum. I mean, it's still hard to take "I'm gonna be #1" plots seriously after No More Heroes.

Also post all you want about Pokemon. I'm not so LP jaded I don't get tingly when I see on-topic posting going on my thread.

The way that things shook out with this busy week, we are right on time to do another team update post, after the back-to-back evolutions that just happened. So let's do that! Pictures in the post because *psst* jokes on you Rocketeer, the there's 18 of them and it'll be easier to gather numerical backup as you inevitably argue about just who the best on my team is.

Image Image Image

Looking dapper there, Ambrose! Sealeo is basically Spheal but moreso, they're saving the big changes for Walrein. Better stats all around, with the exception of Speed. But that all-important Special Attack is solidly ahead. Water Gun is probably a bit obsolete at this point, but before long it'll be replaced with Surf, and he'll be set on the Water front for the rest of the game.

Image Image Image

Spoiler: Tidehollow will always be more Special inclined. However, that Reflect means his Defense is basically doubled whenever I need it to be. Couple that with his surprisingly decent HP and I think he can be quite durable whenever he needs to be. Not a real sweeper by any means, but certainly adequate whenever the weakness is open. Tackle is pretty outdated at this point but can get replaced with a better Normal attack soon, and I'll probably replace Hypnosis with Psychic soon so he has a strong attack to leverage his Special Attack stat. Ringo learns the move naturally anyway.

Image Image Image

Speaking of the adorable little devil! He can think them down, spook them down, or bash them down all pretty well. He's proven himself very reliable in a lot of scenarios, including that time he knocked the wind right out of Gary's Kadabra. The point when he learned Confusion he suddenly shot up from weak but cute to cute but powerful, and that'll just keep going up when he eventually grows into Psychic.

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Look at Lairon's head-plate. It's a larger, more complex version of Aron's mask. I just noticed that when writing the update but it's a cute detail I love. Also look at that Defense stat outstripping everyone else on the team by far. If you need someone to take a punch and deliver punchings, Noriko is your girl. When it comes to taking a Special attack... well, she's a bit fragile, but anything that hits her with a special attack had better hope they take her down in one hit or she misses. Because neither Take Down, Iron Tail, or Rock Slide or anything to sneeze at. Noriko's great.

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Pretty much Belinda's only issue is her moveset. The stats may try to make her into Noriko but a little less so, but quite frankly a slightly more balanced Noriko is still a powerful force to be reckoned with. She tears through opponents with Take Down, even though Take Down causes recoil damage, because they either only chip at her health, or everything gets KOd after one Take Down. Oh, and if Belinda is at low health but not dead? Congratulations you just enabled Flail to practically Take Down levels of power without the downside. Belinda will fight until she drops.

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I'm going to put this upfront: The terrible moveset that Gamefreak saddled the Shiftry line with has not negatively impacted Kazumi's performance. Remember who was the one with Swift when Surge's hyped-up Raichu had like three or four evasion buffs on. Her defense is weak and her offense is so-so, but then she also has another evolution to go. The only question really is when she evolves. I can hold her until she gets Razor Wind (charge up move, decently powerful 100% accurate Normal attack) or even later until she gets Extrasensory (solid Psychic type attack). The long term plan is still to get her Solarbeam, as it's the strongest Grass move she can learn (via TM. Because Gamefreak) and get her Sunny Day so she can be her own beam spam machine. Heck I could even give her the ever popular Brick Break. But really, as soon as she eats the Leaf Stone she'll be a solid Pokemon comparable to the heavy hitters.

But I mean seriously what the hell Game Freak why would you put a brand new version-exclusive cool Grass-type in your brand new generation and give it such an abysmal moveset.




Also the answer is that they are all the best on my team because they're my team.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby The Rocketeer » Thu May 18, 2017 2:52 am

I don't know about "best," matters of taste being what they are, but boy there are a lot of unkind deeds I could accomplish with the Aggron line. I'm a fairly uncreative trainer; I like the fundamentals. An all-around physical monster with reasonably versatile STAB and lots of resistances more than makes up for its weaknesses. That 4x Fighting weakness is still really wince-inducing, given how damn common Fighting moves are even among non-Fighting Pokémon. But that's what rounded teams are for.

Honestly, an Aggron's defense is naturally so high it frees up some EV's to supertrain its poor Speed and middling HP after you jack Attack as high as you feel like. Maybe it's my permascrub nature talking, but I've always felt the best way to win Pokémon battles is to KO your enemy in a single hit before they can act. The rest usually falls into place after that.
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Trix2000
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Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby Trix2000 » Thu May 18, 2017 4:22 am

The Rocketeer wrote:I don't know about "best," matters of taste being what they are, but boy there are a lot of unkind deeds I could accomplish with the Aggron line. I'm a fairly uncreative trainer; I like the fundamentals. An all-around physical monster with reasonably versatile STAB and lots of resistances more than makes up for its weaknesses. That 4x Fighting weakness is still really wince-inducing, given how damn common Fighting moves are even among non-Fighting Pokémon. But that's what rounded teams are for.
It does help that fighting and ground moves were all physical in Gen 3, so at least that massive weakness hits that monstrous defense stat. Aggron's a damn good physical tank for most situations (and basically nullifies normal moves), but... you really don't want to get it near any water.

Honestly, an Aggron's defense is naturally so high it frees up some EV's to supertrain its poor Speed and middling HP after you jack Attack as high as you feel like. Maybe it's my permascrub nature talking, but I've always felt the best way to win Pokémon battles is to KO your enemy in a single hit before they can act. The rest usually falls into place after that.

This only really works in the lower levels and fighting most NPCs. Against tougher opponents (like, say, Elite Four... or other players), Pokemon of equivalent level 50+ tend to be able to take at least one unboosted STAB super-effective hit... unless the stats happen to line up nicely (ie: super frail defenses versus a monstrous attack stat). It only gets worse as you go up in levels towards 100, because Pokemon health and defenses scale faster than their damage (you mostly don't notice this because you'll get move upgrades like Ember->Flamethrower as well as evolution stat bonuses).

And a low speed can be a real problem if you can't ensure the OHKO, because then a faster opponent might be able to set up a stat boost (like Swords Dance or something) that will let them sweep everything. Obviously this isn't much of an issue for NPCs, but against players speed can be really crucial.

That said, for something like Aggron you can only really get speed from 'pathetic' to 'slightly less pathetic', so it may well be better to pump up other stats if you can't ensure first move very often anyways. Depends on a lot of factors, though.

...Sorry, I don't actually do competitive Pokemon, but my brain likes to theorycraft and maximize a fair bit. I don't claim to know all that much actual strategy/meta outside of the raw numbers.
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Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby SpammyV » Thu May 18, 2017 8:57 pm

If I were going to EV train Noriko, first off I wouldn't because I'm not into Pokemon enough to actually EV train, but if I did I would buy a bunch of stat-boosting items to make her chug and I'd probably have gotten her Sp. Defense boosters. If she's never going to be fast, she can at least be less fragile to Special Attacks, because I think she has enough raw Attack to make everything she does feel meaty. But then, spoiler, I'm grinding up solidly past the minimum to deal with the Elite 4 because I want levels to make up for inflexibility of my team.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby The Rocketeer » Thu May 18, 2017 11:34 pm

EV training is absolutely unthinkable in any games except X and Y; supertraining was a bit of a hassle, but if you have a Pokémon you know you're going to be relying on for the long haul (like your starter, for instance), there's a lot of power just lying on the table there, and well worth the small time investment. Hell, the biggest pain in the ass with supertraining is grinding for those bags that totally resets EV's, to wipe clean the undirected EV allotments you pick up otherwise.

That, and in X/Y, supertraining is the best ways to get several of the non-purchaseable evolutionary stones, which is a big deal if, like me, you're trying to evolve a LOT of Pokémon and the one or two of each kind you pick up in the game aren't nearly enough.
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Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby Trix2000 » Fri May 19, 2017 6:19 am

SpammyV wrote:If I were going to EV train Noriko, first off I wouldn't because I'm not into Pokemon enough to actually EV train, but if I did I would buy a bunch of stat-boosting items to make her chug and I'd probably have gotten her Sp. Defense boosters. If she's never going to be fast, she can at least be less fragile to Special Attacks, because I think she has enough raw Attack to make everything she does feel meaty. But then, spoiler, I'm grinding up solidly past the minimum to deal with the Elite 4 because I want levels to make up for inflexibility of my team.
That's probably what I'd go for too, at least for the regular game - though probably put either more attack or more defense as the second.

The Rocketeer wrote:EV training is absolutely unthinkable in any games except X and Y; supertraining was a bit of a hassle, but if you have a Pokémon you know you're going to be relying on for the long haul (like your starter, for instance), there's a lot of power just lying on the table there, and well worth the small time investment. Hell, the biggest pain in the ass with supertraining is grinding for those bags that totally resets EV's, to wipe clean the undirected EV allotments you pick up otherwise.
Yeah, I only ever bothered with EV training when Super Training came out - doing it through fights is more than a little painful, and I don't care about competitive Pokemon much.

Super Training was a lot easier and actually a little fun (for a while), and I made a point to max train everyone the moment they got in-party to make sure I got the proper gains (because I can't help it). It makes a surprising difference even in the regular game, as I thought it made things noticeably easier (what with being able to knock things out easier).

But honestly, without Super Training or something similar, I'd never bother. Even the training was getting real old by the time I was done.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby The Rocketeer » Mon May 22, 2017 4:17 pm

You gotta wonder about Paras/Parasect. By the time it evolves, the parasitic mushroom has completely taken over the insect's mind, and one of the Pokédex entries states that their eggs are infected on hatching from spores left on the eggs. So has no one tried to, you know, keep a hatchling from being infected by the mind-devouring cordyceps parasite? Drop a line to Professor Oak, let him know the insectoid half might have their own entire lifecycle/evolution tree that modern Pokéscience has never observed.

Also, the Fire Red Pokédex entry for Parasect contains a reference to China, one of the very few real-world references found after Gen I, and one that didn't even exist in Parasect's Gen I 'Dex entry, to boot.
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Trix2000
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Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby Trix2000 » Mon May 22, 2017 4:49 pm

I'd think it's pretty clear that most of the Pokedex entries are BS (don't even get me started on some of the ridiculous measurements either).

One theory I've heard is that it's the player character writing them, and that some of the more ridiculous ones are made up to sound more interesting or something. Funny thing to think about.
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SpammyV
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Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby SpammyV » Tue May 23, 2017 12:08 am

Trade evolutions are also really weird. There seems like there was some idea to have trade evolutions crossing data over or something (so that's why the arm swap between Graveller/Golem and Machoke/Machamp) but that really doesn't come up except between Karrablast and Shelmet. And how does that work in the wild?

This is why I always say friends don't let friends think too literally about Pokemon.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby The Rocketeer » Tue May 23, 2017 12:11 am

Regardless of the Dex entries, Paras/Parasects without parasitic, mind-controlling fungus attached to them just aren't a thing. It's sort of like how Slowbros supposedly evolve when a Shellder clamps on to their tail; nevermind how that intersects with game mechanics. We do at least know that Slowpokes without shellfish clamped on their tails are a thing that exists. Not so for Paras, which is defined entirely by its infestation. Rotten luck.
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Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby Trix2000 » Tue May 23, 2017 5:10 pm

I think part of the problem is that the first games had some less-realistic ideas for what Pokemon actually were - namely that I think they were in some respects supposed to be like data or something (hence storing them in the PC and whatnot). Maybe that was part of the function of the Pokeball, but it was never defined all that well.

There also might be something to say with how much they cared about the game's framing, the immersive elements. I feel like they weren't as serious or consistent in large part because they felt they didn't need to be, it just being a game for children to collect and raise little pets, as it were.

I suspect much of this (and why the first games were a lot less focused on sense and more on the desired gameplay/mechanics) has to do with first-time design and the developers really not knowing what they had on their hands. The tagline "Gotta Catch Them All", for instance, was of much greater importance then and is perhaps indicative of the original intent for the series (the inspiration for the game was said to be from bug collecting, after all). Since then, I think largely in part because of audience reactions and a need to improve the formula, they've dropped a lot of the less-sensible parts in favor of making a more believable and immersive world... at least, that's my theory. Maybe it's also in response to the target audience growing so wide (including both the young AND the old).

That doesn't stop some aspects from remaining... questionable, when you think about them too hard (Okay, no really, what ARE you doing when you stick them in the little ball to make them yours? Mind control?), but since most of them aren't crucial to the actual game experience there's not been much need to address them. It's still meant to be a long fun romp in the Pokemon world, after all.


Oddly enough, while writing this, I couldn't help but think of the anime, which actually differs from the games in a number of ways (and I think also shifted in how it handled Pokemon as well). Makes for an interesting juxtaposition I think, especially since the anime world felt in some ways a lot more... cohesive, I guess? Though it's been so long since I've watched any of it that it's hard for me to draw specific comparisons.
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mwchase
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Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Postby mwchase » Tue May 23, 2017 5:59 pm

I thought the explanation for how you can control Pokémon after you catch them is that they're only willing to battle you if they'd accept getting caught, and the point of battling is for them to size you up as a trainer. I don't know how, like, official, or canonical that is, also Master Balls, but it's what I've heard.

I dropped out of the anime early on in Johto, so I've mostly got hearsay that the ecosystem seems to have shifted away from a mix of real animals and Pokémon, to mostly Pokémon.

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