Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

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Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by Trix2000 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:02 am

SpammyV wrote:spammy note: Gamer Rich for best intro 2017
The funny thing is, I'm pretty sure it used to be 'gambling'. Their tame re-localization ruined a good rhyme!
Meanwhile, in Hoenn, Spammy is banging his head against the wall of the Mossdeep Gym as he fails to defeat Liza and Tate for the fourth time.
I feel like I'm the only one who never had a problem kicking their butts. Was I just lucky?
"...Noriko are you gonna be seven feet tall and covered in spikes?"
Bah, of course not, that would be ridiculous!

There's no way she'd also be 800 pounds. Who would even consider that? :P
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The Rocketeer

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by The Rocketeer » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:11 am

I have mixed feelings about letting Pokémon evolve or not. Say you have an Oddish. Oddish is super cute! It's a hoppy radish with a doopy smile! Its evolutions are grotesque vectors for lethal slime and spores.

But then, this falls under "thinking literally about Pokémon," which has never been a productive use of time. Pokémon itself certainly never bothers thinking literally about Pokémon, which should be a big hint.
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Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by Trix2000 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:11 am

Yeah, I think I'm lucky that pretty much all the ones I like (and use) don't have that problem. Maybe I'm just lucky, though I do tend to focus on final evolutions over others.
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SpammyV
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Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by SpammyV » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:17 pm

Trix2000 wrote:
SpammyV wrote:
Meanwhile, in Hoenn, Spammy is banging his head against the wall of the Mossdeep Gym as he fails to defeat Liza and Tate for the fourth time.
I feel like I'm the only one who never had a problem kicking their butts. Was I just lucky?
No, you were probably playing the game as intended. I was referencing my experience in the Emerald RTR, with Team Don't Call Me Lance. The post is here. But the gist is: I could only use Bill and Tatiana to deal with their Xatu and Claydol, relying on Ice Beam and Crunch respectively. No one else was an option as long as Claydol was out. Tina, Giorgio, and Armstrong would crumple to Psychic type attacks. RyuuOhKi would crumple Claydol's constant Earthquakes. Both Xatu and Claydol are throwing up Special Defense boosts. Xatu is raising its Special Attack.

The only reason I won was because in my victorious attempt the AI focused their attacks on Bill, who is fluffy and practically indestructible a Special Defense wall, and never attacked Tatiana to send me into that death spiral where everyone else gets taken out in one turn.

In hindsight, go figure that my first thought was "This team will never make it past the first person with Ice-types" and yet the hardest leader battle was the Psychic gym.
Trix2000 wrote:Yeah, I think I'm lucky that pretty much all the ones I like (and use) don't have that problem. Maybe I'm just lucky, though I do tend to focus on final evolutions over others.
I, too, usually look at final evolutions and think of Pokemon in terms of them being a line to that end.

Also, I love any Pokemon on my team in these Random Team Runs because they're on my one and only team. Except Luvdisc. If it ever happens while I'm making a team I'm rerolling Luvdisc.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by The Rocketeer » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:37 pm

I see you there, stricken reference to the unauthorized Emerald epilogue!
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Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by Trix2000 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:13 am

SpammyV wrote: No, you were probably playing the game as intended...
I had kind-of forgotten how much trouble you had, but I was actually thinking in general, because I feel like I've heard of a number of other people having trouble with the fight. Maybe I dreamed it up, though... or maybe I read too many Nuzlockes a few years back.
Also, I love any Pokemon on my team in these Random Team Runs because they're on my one and only team. Except Luvdisc. If it ever happens while I'm making a team I'm rerolling Luvdisc.
It would strike me as a bit ironic if no one loves Luvdisc.

Actually, thinking about it, I'm a little sad of all the cases like Luvdisc that are so easily discarded, mostly because their stats/moves don't hold up at all (and no evolution or other methods to correct this). In a series that is so focused on battling, where stat totals can have a HUGE effect on the outcome, it just feels weird how many of them are better off caught once and boxed forever.

I know for game design purposes it kind-of makes sense to have a large variety and variance (so you get some that are weak, some strong, some vary depending on level), but since it's easy to get attached to particular designs/species (bet you can't guess miiiiine) I don't know if I like that it's a bit of a crapshoot whether a given Pokemon has the stats to compete or not. I always wonder, when I see new designs I like, whether they'll be good in battle or not.

I mean, I'd use them anyways (I often used a Mightyena but his stats suuuuuck), but it feels like deliberately taking a step down to do so. I also like alternative/random runs that can showcase many of these lesser-used Pokemon, in part for this reason.
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SpammyV
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Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by SpammyV » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:50 am

I also don't like Luvdisc because Luvdisc has over the years become a design I feel is uninspired and I don't want to look at it. And then it's just unremarkable in battle and I feel justified in canning it. I dunno, to me it lacks the character of some other weak Water-types. I'd run a Surskit before Luvdisc for that reason. And while I don't feel like I've strayed too off the beaten path when it comes to Pokemon quality, wanting to use Pokemon I'd never used before is why I'm doing these runs. I mean I prooooobably used an Aggron when I originally played Ruby because everyone did, but the fact that I can't remember means it's been long enough to use one again.

ALSO if the epilogue was unauthorized it was basically embraced and would've been incorporated to the finale battle with Stephen. I need to get that made at some point because it was all prepared except for me not wanting to grind to 80.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by The Rocketeer » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:41 am

I actually have a TON of experience using a wide variety of non-final-evolution Pokémon; my Gen VI dex is at 434 caught, and by "caught" it means owned; I abided by the "living dex" ideal, wherein I wouldn't just have one Nidoking I raised from a Nidoran but a Nidoran, Nidorino, and Nidoking concurrently. All those 2nd- and 3rd-evolution Pokémon, I raised the old fashioned way: either caught young from the wild, hatched from an egg, or traded from someone who'd done the same, and leveled through honest battle. I always tried to pay attention to their stat distribution and learnsets, just as if I planned to take each of them to the league.

I actually have relatively little experience with fully-evolved or non-evolving Pokémon (sorry Tina), and never used legendaries; if they aren't helping increment that dex number, they're benched for the next up-and-comer. Needless to say, the Ditto that's spent 41 of its 72 levels in the Daycare has seen some serious shit. I don't even know where it got that studded leather harness.
SpammyV wrote:ALSO if the epilogue was unauthorized it was basically embraced and would've been incorporated to the finale battle with Stephen.
Is it canon that Hoenn-Spammy's iPod is filled to capacity with breakup songs, blues-wailin', and power ballads?
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Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by Trix2000 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:15 am

Apparently I'm at 374 caught, 650 seen when I take a peek at Bank. Most of that's just from catching everything in my path playing through several of the games, transferring up as they came out - I haven't actively gone training or catching for Pokedex credit because I'm lazy. They're also mostly all unused and have a silly naming scheme (Pokemon name + y or ie)... I may not be the most considerate trainer.

Also don't tend to use the legendaries unless I can't decide on anything else to put on the team - they're so powerful they seem a bit cheaty.

The Rocketeer wrote:Needless to say, the Ditto that's spent 41 of its 72 levels in the Daycare has seen some serious shit. I don't even know where it got that studded leather harness.
The more people talk about Ditto's role in the Pokemon world, the more I do not want to know anything about how it does what it does.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by The Rocketeer » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:21 am

Trix2000 wrote:The more people talk about Ditto's role in the Pokemon world, the more I do not want to know anything about how it does what it does.
If you've ever kneaded nine pounds of silly putty into shag carpet, you don't have to wonder.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:06 am

The Rocketeer wrote: If you've ever kneaded nine pounds of silly putty into shag carpet
That sounds almost sexual,smithers.
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Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by Trix2000 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:18 am

The Rocketeer wrote: If you've ever kneaded nine pounds of silly putty into shag carpet, you don't have to wonder.
...Now I have to ask why you know this.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by The Rocketeer » Thu May 04, 2017 9:05 pm

Finally, a chance to get something off my chest that's bugged me since the '90's: what idiot would use Pokémon for flower arranging? Now, bear with me here: this is a line straight out of Gen I. At that time, the only grass types were the Bulbasaur line, Oddish line, Bellsprout line, Exeggcute line, and Tangela. Out of these, ONLY Tangela, Exeggcute and Exeggutor are non-poisonous. Also worth pointing out: only Venusaur, Vileplume, and the Bellsprout line feature, uh... what's the word... oh, FLOWERS. The Bellsprout line are friggin' pitcher flowers, and both Venusaur and Vileplume are based on a Rafflesia, a giant grotesque flower that smells like an old corpse rotting in the sun. Vileplume's dex entries explicitly state that its copious spores are potently toxic and trigger extreme allergic reactions in human beings. Venusaur's flower is apparently not a drastic public health hazard, but you know what else it isn't? A flower. It's a palm tree with pink leaves. Even if it wasn't, you know what I don't think of when I think of floristry? A 6' tall, 200 lb quadrupedal dinosaur with a bad attitude.

Pretty sure that one idiot trainer was just trying to save face while holding back tears, and counting on you to know even less about Grass-type Pokémon than they did.
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SpammyV
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Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by SpammyV » Sat May 06, 2017 2:28 am

On the other hand Erika is kinda more of a... uh... not-so-kind-word as I remembered so maybe she is using noxious and/or carnivorous plants for her flower arranging. Anyone can be an artist.
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The Rocketeer

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by The Rocketeer » Sat May 06, 2017 4:18 am

For the record, Beauty Tamia, the trainer in question, has two Bellsprouts. So, not totally invalid for flower arranging if you don't mind fucking up a good floral centerpiece with gently-swaying doll-eyed carnivorous sallow monster flora. I don't think Erika herself has any hobbies besides smoking drugs and losing Pokémon battles.

I never did this back in the Nineties, but it wasn't long after I realized that this gym's worst nightmare is Dodrio. Dodrio is a pretty terrifying asset in the first place; I've got one composed of pure hatred in Gen VI, in the 80 level range, and the sky darkens at its approach. But in Gen I and III, it's more or less purpose-built to eviscerate Celadon Gym. Doduos are caught just west of Celadon, on Route 16; the path further on to the Cycling Road is blocked by Snorlax, but the grass can be accessed through a Cut-able tree. The gym is balance for Lv. ~29, and Doduo evolves into Dodrio at level 31. For reference, Charmeleon evolves at 36 like other starters, as does Pidgeotto. Spearow evolves into Fearow fairly early at 20, but wild Fearows can actually be caught in the same grass as Doduos.

Doduo appears in the 18-22 level range, so you'd have to train it up for a bit when you're probably itching to just hit the gym already... though some of those levels could come from the losers in the gym itself, before squaring off with Erika. Why bother when you could catch a Fearow in the same place? Power. Pure, terrible power. Before Gen IV, Flying was a physical damage type, even though almost all Flying types have middling Attack. Dodrio trades in health and defenses for great speed and the highest physical attack power of any Flying types except Scyther, with which it is tied at 110, and Dragonite, which clocks in at a vicious 134. Yes, Dodrio is physically stronger than Charizard, Aerodactyl, and all legendary birds.

But Dodrio is way more accessible; to have a Scyther, which is Red-exclusive in the first place, you'd need to put off Celadon Gym until the Safari Zone, and there's not much point; Scyther does have two types Grass types should fear, but doesn't actually learn a Bug move until Fury Cutter at Lv. 46, which sucks like all Bug moves until Megahorn. And there are no Bug TM's in Gen I and III. It's technically possible to have a Dragonite if you grinded 2800 coins at the Game Corner to trade for a Lv. 18 Dratini and then grinded a very slow-leveling Pokémon to Lv. 55 before tackling a Gym Leader with max Lv. 29 Pokémon, but I'd file that under "questionable use of time."

Heck, grinding a Doduo to level 31 might also seem a strange use of time, especially if you have a Charmeleon or Kadabra that can probably solo the gym, but if you don't have a strong Flying type, Dodrio's the best candidate to take to the endgame. The one wrinkle with Dodrio is moves; in Gen I Doduo picks up the mighty Drill Peck at 30, but in Gen III it doesn't learn a Flying type move other than Peck until Drill Peck at Lv. 47. (In exchange, it learns the godly Tri-Attack at level 21.) But conveniently, you pick up HM02 Fly in the exact same location you catch Doduo. Fly's always been a damn good move, and you'll probably always want a Pokémon in your party with Fly, and Dodrio fits the bill for a Flier that won't just waste one of your six spots. (Especially in Gen I, in which Charizard couldn't learn Fly except in Yellow)). If you don't want to teach it Fly for some reason, TM40 Aerial Ace, conveniently introduced in Gen III, is strong and bypasses accuracy; that TM's stuck in Route 9, early in the game.

TL;DR: Dodrio is an unquenchable engine of lightning-quick rage. I also use mine for flower arranging.
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SpammyV
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Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by SpammyV » Sat May 06, 2017 7:34 pm

Speaking of Aerial Ace, guess what was sitting forgotten in the TM case while I was banging my head against Erika's Victribell.

UPDATE 22! THE FATEFUL FIRST BATTLE AGAINST GIOVANNI!
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The Rocketeer

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by The Rocketeer » Sat May 06, 2017 8:24 pm

I'm starting to think Spamira is Paul Kersey's great-niece...
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SpammyV
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Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by SpammyV » Sat May 06, 2017 8:58 pm

Nah can't be, she's not getting assaulted and/or killed to give Charles Bronson a reason to shoot people.
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Lachlan the Sane
Location: I come from the land down under, where women blow and men chunder

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by Lachlan the Sane » Sun May 07, 2017 3:05 am

Wow, Giovanni's team is actually kinda lousy at this point. I mean, the Kangaskhan is a monster, but other than that all he has are a couple of Rock/Ground pokemon, which is one of the worst type combos in the game. If you have a Grass or Water-type, you can burn down the first two Pokemon in a few seconds and then beat the Kangaskhan by attrition (which is exactly what you did).
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SpammyV
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Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by SpammyV » Sun May 07, 2017 4:21 am

But that Kangaskhan is really good, and can Mega Punch so dang hard. At first I thought that the move ran out of PP, but looking at Bulbapedia no, the move has 20 PP, the AI just decided to stop crushing me with Mega Punch.

Then again I'm sure Giovanni just had his casual team out and obviously next time we battle it'll be for real and not so easy and blah blah blah.
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Lachlan the Sane
Location: I come from the land down under, where women blow and men chunder

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by Lachlan the Sane » Sun May 07, 2017 5:11 am

Yeah, it's not that uncommon in Pokemon games for a gym leader or boss to have one ridiculously tough Pokemon and two or three also-rans.
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Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Pokemon Fire Red RTR: Team Invasive Species

Post by Trix2000 » Mon May 08, 2017 8:45 am

The Rocketeer wrote:*A Rocketeer-length on Dodrio*
I'd have considered things like that... if Erika ever seemed like a threat to me. She seriously never gave me an ounce of trouble on any of my runs through the game (old or new) and I don't think I even ran Charmander most of them.

I'm not entirely sure why, thinking back. I know I had some difficulty with several of the others (Sabrina and Surge, in particular), but Erika was always just a "Oh hey, let's go knock her over now that we're here" kind of thing to me.
Lachlan the Sane wrote:Wow, Giovanni's team is actually kinda lousy at this point. I mean, the Kangaskhan is a monster, but other than that all he has are a couple of Rock/Ground pokemon, which is one of the worst type combos in the game. If you have a Grass or Water-type, you can burn down the first two Pokemon in a few seconds and then beat the Kangaskhan by attrition (which is exactly what you did).
And Giovanni was another one, mostly because Ground is a terrible type to have IMO. Venusaur and Blastoise could practically solo him in most of his encounters.

A little trickier when he's the gym leader (I... really hope I don't need to spoiler that), but mostly just due to levels if I recall. Also Fissure, but the accuracy on it is crap so it's just RNG if he can actually use it.
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