Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post Reply
User avatar
Ringwraith

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Ringwraith » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:56 am

An issue is that Mass Effect's marketing has always been bad.
Remember the "awesome button" they kept referencing at one point?

Not getting any non-main-mission footage makes me wary though of course, can't tell how fun the worlds look to traverse unless they actually show that.
Ninety-Three

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Ninety-Three » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:49 pm

Ringwraith wrote:An issue is that Mass Effect's marketing has always been bad.
Remember the "awesome button" they kept referencing at one point?
I mean that wasn't the marketing, the awesome button was bad and the marketing just reflected it.
User avatar
Ringwraith

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Ringwraith » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:53 pm

But it's all very much a similar thing, right?
Marketing it one way (action stuff, video games!) Whilst leaving things like the writing mostly unmentioned and left on faith.
User avatar
Thomas

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Thomas » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:39 pm

Ninety-Three wrote: EA-Bioware has a history of learning the wrong lessons, so I'm more than a bit worried about that. ME3 deserved every bit of backlash it got, but I fear that it will result in Corporate telling the scripwriters that happy endings are mandatory. I also expect that from now on, they'll manage the plot so that they can produce endless sequels rather than doing something drastic like ME3 which forced them to relocate the series to an entire new galaxy (thus throwing out valuable brand assets like Quarrian waifus).
Oh, dear what you write sounds way too plausible. Now you've said, I absolutely bet that a 'happy endings are mandatory' is totally a thing, if not officially. And it makes so much sense that they'll start Assassins Creeding their story.

Mass Effect 1 came out when we still thought games were going to be self-contained trilogies now. KOTOR and Jade Empire had been made as standalone games, but Halo 3 had just wrapped up and was meant to be the last game in the series. Assassins Creed had just been released and the plot of that seemed to clearly be written for a trilogy. Jak 3 had been released a couple of years ago, and that was clearly the end of the trilogy. And now ME1 was advertised from the start as a trilogy.

No-one even pretends their games have self-contained finite stories anymore. I would genuinely be shocked for a new AAA game to announce it's intent to be a trilogy.

The more I reflect on ME4 though, the thing I'm most worried about isn't that the writing will suck like ME3 (I mean it probably will, but I've already gone through the five stages there) it's that the gameplay will suck like Dragon Age 3. I fear the game's shooting will be bland, badly-balanced, repetitious, and just barely engaging enough that the average gamer won't actively complain about it being those things. I've been getting that vibe from their promo materials, but since it's all trailers rather than raw gameplay footage it's pretty hard to tell for sure, is anyone else seeing that?
Before suddenly having the fear dumped on me that it's not going to be written as a finite story (:p), this was the sort of vibe I was getting. That they're going to go for some open-world semi-MMO reptitive gameplay loop.

A Rockpapershotgun article had this quote:
“We tried a lot of things and failed in a lot of different ways in development! So at the end the decision we made for this game was to say, we have those huge spaces but we’re not going to randomly generate anything. Everything we’re going to make will be memorable, hand-crafted and placed, and have a narrative impact even if it’s a very small thing. Can you drive 50 minutes without encountering anything? We’re trying to avoid that, but because of the nature of what we’re doing, I can’t promise it won’t happen. That being said, if it does happen as a player you will know it, because it means as a player you’re going to a part where we don’t promise you anything. Our hope is that you never have to hit an invisible wall because you keep finding something interesting.”
Which did not alleviate my fears.

Although I could imagine the gunplay itself would be as entertaining as ME3, I hadn't been feeling that, but I could easily believe it won't have the wider level design to support it.


EDIT: There's speculation one of your squadmates is related to The Illusive Man (they share a surname), so let that relax you guys.
Also the people who send off the arcs sound an awful lot like the generic industrials who sponsor Cerberus.
User avatar
Daemian Lucifer

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:10 pm

It will have jetpacks though.Its pretty hard to make jetpacks suck.So the fighting will be good.
Ninety-Three

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Ninety-Three » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:18 pm

Daemian Lucifer wrote:It will have jetpacks though.Its pretty hard to make jetpacks suck.So the fighting will be good.
Clearly you've forgotten the jetpack in Bioware's SWTOR.
User avatar
Trix2000
Location: California

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Trix2000 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:32 pm

Ninety-Three wrote: EA-Bioware has a history of learning the wrong lessons, so I'm more than a bit worried about that. ME3 deserved every bit of backlash it got, but I fear that it will result in Corporate telling the scripwriters that happy endings are mandatory. I also expect that from now on, they'll manage the plot so that they can produce endless sequels rather than doing something drastic like ME3 which forced them to relocate the series to an entire new galaxy (thus throwing out valuable brand assets like Quarrian waifus).

The more I reflect on ME4 though, the thing I'm most worried about isn't that the writing will suck like ME3 (I mean it probably will, but I've already gone through the five stages there) it's that the gameplay will suck like Dragon Age 3. I fear the game's shooting will be bland, badly-balanced, repetitious, and just barely engaging enough that the average gamer won't actively complain about it being those things. I've been getting that vibe from their promo materials, but since it's all trailers rather than raw gameplay footage it's pretty hard to tell for sure, is anyone else seeing that?
The thing that gives me pause, though, is that they've spent quite a bit of time developing this (it's been a number of years since ME3). That's not what I would have expected from them if they were going to continue along similar track to the past, as I'd expect EA to want to push it out relatively quickly - we may have even had two games already. I also don't think the backlash was focused on the ending being unhappy so much as just BAD. Could be they just wanted more breathing room from ME3, but then they also would still need to capitalize on whatever interest people have left in the series (which would wane over time).

I also have gotten the impression that the developers have had more free reign on this based on what's been seen/shown/talked about, but that could just be my own impression. It feels like they're treating it almost as an entire new project/product, rather than a continuation of the old series (barring races/lore/etc). I don't think we can assume it's going to go the way we expect - but it remains to be seen if their 'new' direction ends up working out or not.

I also don't think any sort of mandate for "GOOD ENDING REQUIRED" necessitates that the rest of the game would be poorer to compensate. But again, we'll see how the result ends up.
Ninety-Three

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Ninety-Three » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:54 pm

Trix2000 wrote:I also don't think the backlash was focused on the ending being unhappy so much as just BAD..
Like I said, a history of learning the wrong lessons. It's helped by the fact that there were a decent number of people who did just want a happy ending.
User avatar
Thomas

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Thomas » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:15 am

I wish Shadows of Mordor was any IP but Lord of the Rings, what they're doing is so interesting (if probably flawed), but it's just not LOTR.

I'm going to have to treat it like an Extreme Marvel spin-off or whatever they call that alternate universe line.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtt4dMYSTkQ
User avatar
Daemian Lucifer

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:38 am

Treat it like merp then.Middle earth role playing game was established in middle earth,but depending on the gm you could do crazy things like slaughter balrogs yourself,destroy sauron,wield rings of power,etc.
User avatar
Ringwraith

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Ringwraith » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:53 pm

Yeah, it very much screams of Warner Brothers wanting to put their licenses to use rather than a decision the developers made.
Thus they're continuing to make the game they wanted, even if it chafes against it.
User avatar
4th Dimension

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by 4th Dimension » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:52 pm

Eh, even back in Shadow of Mordor they were pretty much allready creating the AU Middle Earth and by the end they actually fight Suron and decide to craft another ring and take the battle to him. So this isn't exactly new. Also I liked what I saw in the trailer, although I would agree that thematically it's definitely not LOTR, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun.
User avatar
Ringwraith

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Ringwraith » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:33 pm

I meant in terms of the original!
It clearly didn't fit there either.
Just using the name to get some free marketing.
User avatar
4th Dimension

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by 4th Dimension » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:22 pm

You mean the original game or books?
User avatar
Ringwraith

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Ringwraith » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:37 pm

The first game. It didn't fit then and was likely a shoe-in, and it's just continuing to be so.
User avatar
4th Dimension

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by 4th Dimension » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:44 pm

You mean the mechanics did not fit the LOTR in the first game? I would agree, but on the other hand without those mechanics there kind of would be no game. As far as I'm concerned I tend to try to ignore that the game has anything to do with LOTR and just play it as a game set into a LOTR ripoff.
User avatar
Daemian Lucifer

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:00 pm

4th Dimension wrote:You mean the mechanics did not fit the LOTR in the first game? I would agree, but on the other hand without those mechanics there kind of would be no game.
Not really.You can make something akin to for honor in the middle earth that does not involve going into mordor.You can set the game in the first war for the ring and bypass this declining world of low magic.There are plenty of other ways to do it besides the one they picked.
User avatar
Ringwraith

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Ringwraith » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:20 pm

I think it's more like they had an idea for a cool mechanic and such, then were told to make the game Lord of the Rings-themed.
User avatar
John

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by John » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:08 pm

I haven't played it, but Shadows of Mordor also sounds like a poor thematic fit for Tolkien's universe. There are grim, revenge-obsessed warriors in Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion, don't get me wrong, but they always come to bad ends, their quests unfulfilled or else fulfilled in the worst possible way. Nor are they ever depicted as the sort of person you would want to be. The Lord of the Rings is very much not a power-fantasy, while it sounds as though Shadows of Mordor very much is. Perhaps that's unfair. As I said, I haven't played it. The Nemesis system sounds really interesting, but I strongly suspect that if I did play it the other content would just make me sad or angry.
User avatar
4th Dimension

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by 4th Dimension » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:41 pm

Ringwraith wrote:I think it's more like they had an idea for a cool mechanic and such, then were told to make the game Lord of the Rings-themed.
And that is why I say that removing that mechanics would mean there would be no game. Removing it would leave you with LOTR lore and no game play and essentially no game.

Again I agree Shadow of Mordor it's a terrible for for LOTR, but that is what Shadow of Mordor is, and without doing radical changes on SoM "lore" and mechanics which would make it into an entirely different game, it is what is is and will continue being it. Which is why I tend to ignore that LOTR prefix and consider it as being set in a "LOTR inspired" world.
User avatar
Ringwraith

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Ringwraith » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:00 am

Oh yeah, not saying they should've stripped it out, just the tone is incredibly jarring. Not that the story is apparently worth a damn anyway, but still a bit odd.
User avatar
Thomas

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by Thomas » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:38 am

John wrote:I haven't played it, but Shadows of Mordor also sounds like a poor thematic fit for Tolkien's universe. There are grim, revenge-obsessed warriors in Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion, don't get me wrong, but they always come to bad ends, their quests unfulfilled or else fulfilled in the worst possible way. Nor are they ever depicted as the sort of person you would want to be. The Lord of the Rings is very much not a power-fantasy, while it sounds as though Shadows of Mordor very much is. Perhaps that's unfair. As I said, I haven't played it. The Nemesis system sounds really interesting, but I strongly suspect that if I did play it the other content would just make me sad or angry.
I will say that the protagonist is almost certainly heading to a bad end. And specifically, he's going to become another Sauron figure with his own reign of terror. It looked that way in the first game and now this one involved building your own orc army.

Its just when the gameplay is a power fantasy, as you say, then 'But he was unhappy at the end' rings a bit hollow.

Plus it's now a franchise. Good luck being Spec Ops when you're going to pump out an endless series of these things
User avatar
lurkey

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by lurkey » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:45 am

So. RPS publishes sort of a review of the first few hours on Andromeda, and it's less than glowing. Already one can fertilize all the zucchini farms of Spain with the comment section of the article, and if it progresses like this, it'll go all the way up to tulip fields of Netherlands.

This is going to be so good.
User avatar
John

Re: Gushing/ranting about interesting games in development

Post by John » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:03 pm

lurkey wrote:So. RPS publishes sort of a review of the first few hours on Andromeda, and it's less than glowing. Already one can fertilize all the zucchini farms of Spain with the comment section of the article, and if it progresses like this, it'll go all the way up to tulip fields of Netherlands.

This is going to be so good.
Good is not the word I would use. I read the article back when there were only a few dozen comments--you could not pay me to read the comments now that there are many hundreds of them--but even then people were accusing John Walker of, among other things, (i) approaching the game in bad faith, (ii) just trying to be cool and edgy by criticizing Mass Effect, (iii) lying, because Kotaku apparently kind of liked it so it must be fine, and (iv) caring about parts of the game that don't actually matter instead of the parts that the commenters care about. For the record, Walker thought that the writing and the interface were terrible. For this, it seems, he must die.
Post Reply